Record Cleaning - Soap and Water - test results

[LAB3]

Ok, I accept that it may be faster, but is it cleaner? That is really the question, does the vacuum remove more debris than rinsing with a hand held sprayer, or a Gen Dandy type of sprayer? The argument by the RCM crowd seems to be that it cleans more effectively then something you can do in the sink, because of the vacuum. I have heard no logical explanation that it can, or does.

Jon

Good question Jon. To be honest I am not sure the vacuum helps remove anymore crud out. I take my time in the sink with a new paint pad and Dawn liquid and power rinse in the sink both sides several times then 20 turns in each direction in my Spin Clean with (new brushes) with distilled water.

What started me to use the DIY label cover and paint pad in the sink was after I cleaned a LP in my Spin Clean (followed the instructions) from my late parents collection that had not seen day light in 40 years, my brush on my Pickering cart picked up some crud the Spin Clean missed....

Most of the Lp's I purchase now are NM- or better and they really don't need the sink wash. I purchase Lp's from a AKer in Barter Town (Klownschool) he play grades each LP and he has a expensive RCM he uses on them and I pay him extra to use new poly inner sleeves so it's clean when I receive it.

Louis

 

[jnoyes]

I'm not against using an RCM, nor do I think manual cleaning is more effective. However, I do think cleaning in the sink can be every bit as effective as a vacuum type RCM, using a good cleaning method and proper tools.

People on tight budgets, or that don't have large record collections may find sink cleaning better for their circumstance.

I use a Spin Clean and find it very effective and convenient.

An RCM is not the only answer IMO.

Jon

 

[kirk57]

Sure once the brush or beater bar knocks it loose the vacuum sucks it up.

Try getting the dust off of something only using the vacuum, no brush. Not very effective at all.

Would you vacuum your deck/sidewalk to get it clean, or spray it with the hose? Which would be more effective?

Vacuuming can't even overcome static attraction without the help of a brush.

Jon

Wet scrubbing, followed by wet vac of the sidewalk, would be most effective.

 

[LAB3]

I'm not against using an RCM, nor do I think manual cleaning is more effective. However, I do think cleaning in the sink can be every bit as effective as a vacuum type RCM, using a good cleaning method and proper tools.

People on tight budgets, or that don't have large record collections may find sink cleaning better for their circumstance.

I use a Spin Clean and find it very effective and convenient.

An RCM is not the only answer IMO.

Jon

If you have Lp's that have not been played in 40 plus years and they are really dirty, the Spin Clean with new brushes and following the instructions did not remove all the crud in a few Lp's in my large collection I inherited.. On all my other Lp's I purchased years ago the Spin Clean worked great, you can see the crud in the bottom of the yellow tub. I rotate the Lp's in Both directions 10 revolutions or more..and they play great. My Pickering cart(XUV/D4500Q) with tracking brush has a Shibata stylus and they by design go deeper into the Lp groves from what I have read. I agree a RCM is Not the only answer and either is a Spin Clean in extremely dirty LP's. IMHO.
Louis

 

[kcblair]

All I know, when I switched from hand washing and drying to an inexpensive RCM, two things happened

1. I no longer killed by back, laboring over a sink.

2. Records had an increase in fidelity and could be played immediately.

The increase in fidelity was very noticeable , noise floor had lowered. Maybe I didn't hand wash my records very well in the first place, but the KAB EV-1 , sure made life easier. I re-sent my entire record collection , back through the RCM.

 

[krisbee]

And for me, it was the reverse - I found it easier to clean in the sink than my machine - I also didn't notice a remarkable fidelity difference between the two... and I actually don't wait to dry the records - I find the microfiber cloths dry it sufficiently enough to play within 15 seconds (I can see the water vapor evaporate before my eyes on what is left behind)...

But, that is why there is no definitive answer here - people expect there to be. It is what works for you. What works for me is the sink method with a groovmaster label saver device. I find it quicker and just as through. You may not for your conditions/taste/setup.

It's almost silly how many people come on these threads and tell us we are wrong, as if we haven't actually tried and came to our own conclusions...

 

[kirk57]

And for me, it was the reverse - I found it easier to clean in the sink than my machine - I also didn't notice a remarkable fidelity difference between the two... and I actually don't wait to dry the records - I find the microfiber cloths dry it sufficiently enough to play within 15 seconds (I can see the water vapor evaporate before my eyes on what is left behind)...

But, that is why there is no definitive answer here - people expect there to be. It is what works for you. What works for me is the sink method with a groovmaster label saver device. I find it quicker and just as through. You may not for your conditions/taste/setup.

It's almost silly how many people come on these threads and tell us we are wrong, as if we haven't actually tried and came to our own conclusions...

True enough.

Anybody reading this thread can discern the preference of those who have actually tried both methods, quite easily.

 

[aabottom]

Some of the LPs I get at the thrifts are really slimmy & moldly. I would definitely rough clean those with soap & water before I put them in any RCM or device that I paid big bucks for or spent considerable time building.

 

[jnoyes]

If you have Lp's that have not been played in 40 plus years and they are really dirty, the Spin Clean with new brushes and following the instructions did not remove all the crud in a few Lp's in my large collection I inherited.. On all my other Lp's I purchased years ago the Spin Clean worked great, you can see the crud in the bottom of the yellow tub. I rotate the Lp's in Both directions 10 revolutions or more..and they play great. My Pickering cart(XUV/D4500Q) with tracking brush has a Shibata stylus and they by design go deeper into the Lp groves from what I have read. I agree a RCM is Not the only answer and either is a Spin Clean in extremely dirty LP's. IMHO.
Louis[/QUOTE

I don't buy that vacuuming made the difference. Perhaps there was a difference in the brush or solution that made the difference. Vacuuming is just not that effective in removing debris that is stuck to a surface. On really dirty records, I use a stronger chemical pre-cleaning before the Spin Clean. I also believe that the hand held sink sprayer is more effective in removing debris than vacuuming. I agree that the Spin Clean has it's limitations, as does a vacuum RCM.

Jon

 

[jnoyes]

Wet scrubbing, followed by wet vac of the sidewalk, would be most effective.

Actually a pressure washer would be more effective. Vacuuming is only really good at sucking up the water that contains the debris that was removed by scrubbing or pressure washing. On it's own a vacuum would only pick up debris that was already loose.

Jon

 

[jnoyes]

And for me, it was the reverse - I found it easier to clean in the sink than my machine - I also didn't notice a remarkable fidelity difference between the two... and I actually don't wait to dry the records - I find the microfiber cloths dry it sufficiently enough to play within 15 seconds (I can see the water vapor evaporate before my eyes on what is left behind)...

But, that is why there is no definitive answer here - people expect there to be. It is what works for you. What works for me is the sink method with a groovmaster label saver device. I find it quicker and just as through. You may not for your conditions/taste/setup.

It's almost silly how many people come on these threads and tell us we are wrong, as if we haven't actually tried and came to our own conclusions...

I agree that there isn't a definitive answer.

I would use stronger language than silly to describe people that use terms like "cannot be denied" or "cannot be debated" when offering their opinions. I believe that's arrogance and disregard for other people's opinions. It also displays attitude that is not conducive to having a civil discussion of an issue. Often times that type of attitude is what gets threads closed. One should choose their words more carefully and show some respect for others. No one's opinions here are etched in stone!

Jon

 

[majick47]

I couldn't imagine myself cleaning records in the kitchen sink, kind of reminds me of seeing a sign on a rubbish truck saying they also catered events. Germ laden, moldy, filthy records being cleaned in a food preparation area isn't the ideal place. Who knows where those records have been and who handled them. It's a matter of picking the right tools for the job, a dirty record requires a record cleaning machine and the proper fluids/rinses to make it sanitary. Recommend people use the disposable exam gloves when handling records that havn't been sanitized.

 

[krisbee]

I couldn't imagine myself cleaning records in the kitchen sink, kind of reminds me of seeing a sign on a rubbish truck saying they also catered events. Germ laden, moldy, filthy records being cleaned in a food preparation area isn't the ideal place. Who knows where those records have been and who handled them.

You mean opposed to your meat and vegetables?

Of course, you are assuming everyone is using their kitchen sink, opposed to a general sink, but still... c'mon, really? Really?

 

[LAB3]

If you have Lp's that have not been played in 40 plus years and they are really dirty, the Spin Clean with new brushes and following the instructions did not remove all the crud in a few Lp's in my large collection I inherited.. On all my other Lp's I purchased years ago the Spin Clean worked great, you can see the crud in the bottom of the yellow tub. I rotate the Lp's in Both directions 10 revolutions or more..and they play great. My Pickering cart(XUV/D4500Q) with tracking brush has a Shibata stylus and they by design go deeper into the Lp groves from what I have read. I agree a RCM is Not the only answer and either is a Spin Clean in extremely dirty LP's. IMHO.
Louis[/QUOTE

I don't buy that vacuuming made the difference. Perhaps there was a difference in the brush or solution that made the difference. Vacuuming is just not that effective in removing debris that is stuck to a surface. On really dirty records, I use a stronger chemical pre-cleaning before the Spin Clean. I also believe that the hand held sink sprayer is more effective in removing debris than vacuuming. I agree that the Spin Clean has it's limitations, as does a vacuum RCM.

Jon

Sorry you took my post that way.... ........what I meant was.... washing under the sink with Dawn liquid and paint pad made the difference on REALLY dirty LP's VS Slin Clean with new Brushes and the correct amount of their cleaner and followed the instructions. Most of the 700 LP's I inherited have not been opened in 40 plus years and some with No inner sleeves. It was of those Lp's stored decades and no inner sleeve that my brush on the Pickering cart caught some crud on a Shibata stylus after a Spin Clean routine....now that I hand wash, so far on these filthy LP's this has Not happened again.

This is what made me make a DIY label cover and DIY vacuum tool and I now use the Spin Clean as a distilled water rinsing tub with fresh brushes in it. When I clean those old filthy Lp's.ONLY The Lp's I have purchased in the last 4 years do NOT need to be water cleaned....... yet. Those Spin Clean brushes Dry make good dust cleaner with Lp on the TT rotating..... gently :yes: The friction of the dry microfiber towel on the vacuum tool sometimes creates static...Zerostat gun is my friend in this climate I live in.

Vacuuming was to speed up the drying time and I read from the RCM threads that vacuuming HELPED clean too :scratch2: YMMV I hope I explained it correctly this time.
Regards
Louis

 

[jnoyes]

Sorry you took my post that way.... ........what I meant was.... washing under the sink with Dawn liquid and paint pad made the difference on REALLY dirty LP's VS Slin Clean with new Brushes and the correct amount of their cleaner and followed the instructions. Most of the 700 LP's I inherited have not been opened in 40 plus years and some with No inner sleeves. It was of those Lp's stored decades and no inner sleeve that my brush on the Pickering cart caught some crud on a Shibata stylus after a Spin Clean routine....now that I hand wash, so far on these filthy LP's this has Not happened again.

This is what made me make a DIY label cover and DIY vacuum tool and I now use the Spin Clean as a distilled water rinsing tub with fresh brushes in it. When I clean those old filthy Lp's.ONLY The Lp's I have purchased in the last 4 years do NOT need to be water cleaned....... yet. Those Spin Clean brushes Dry make good dust cleaner with Lp on the TT rotating..... gently :yes: The friction of the dry microfiber towel on the vacuum tool sometimes creates static...Zerostat gun is my friend in this climate I live in.

Vacuuming was to speed up the drying time and I read from the RCM threads that vacuuming HELPED clean too :scratch2: YMMV I hope I explained it correctly this time.
Regards
Louis

Louis,

My apology that I didn't read or understand your post as I should have. I just got back from working on a customers deck and it is very hot here today. I'm I bit beat.

I read you post again and now I get it. It sounds like you have found a good technique that works. Thanks for sharing it.

Jon

 

[majick47]

Don't forget eye protection from splashed fluids, safety glasses along with the gloves will guard against direct contact with germs and bacteria. Don't put you and your families health at risk with the mishandling and not properly cleaning potentially hazardous material.

 

[LAB3]

You mean opposed to your meat and vegetables?

Of course, you are assuming everyone is using their kitchen sink, opposed to a general sink, but still... c'mon, really? Really?

He went "Fishing" and you took the bait. Some of the members on the motorcycle forums will post something that is "Nitpicking" like this just to get a reaction. On LABUSA.org. (Suzuki Hayabusa site) .... " No Thin Skin Allowed" on Bike talk........ just about anything goes over there. LOL

 

[Sandbar92]

I've been using an RCM for several years, but some records are just more stubborn than others. I finally got up the courage to try the kitchen sink method using Dawn detergent, a soft paintbrush, distilled water for the rinse, some micro-fiber cloths, and a file rack to put the records on to dry thoroughly. I first rinse under the tap at a lukewarm setting and then final rinse in distilled water. I've not used anything to cover the labels and they've survived their watery ordeal. The 2 records I tried this on were original copies of the first 2 Jackson Browne albums. Both have greatly improved by this cleaning! I'm greatly impressed and busy picking out other noisy lp's to go for a bath. Thanks to all who have encouraged us try this method!

 

[LAB3]

I've been using an RCM for several years, but some records are just more stubborn than others. I finally got up the courage to try the kitchen sink method using Dawn detergent, a soft paintbrush, distilled water for the rinse, some micro-fiber cloths, and a file rack to put the records on to dry thoroughly. I first rinse under the tap at a lukewarm setting and then final rinse in distilled water. I've not used anything to cover the labels and they've survived their watery ordeal. The 2 records I tried this on were original copies of the first 2 Jackson Browne albums. Both have greatly improved by this cleaning! I'm greatly impressed and busy picking out other noisy lp's to go for a bath. Thanks to all who have encouraged us try this method!

I tried it without my DIY label covers and all was OK until I cleaned some LP's from the 1950's, the labels red color ran when I dried off the water spots and one other had bubbles under it a few days later. YMMV on water damage on labels.

 

[Kingshead]

Loving this technique, picked up the dent removers last week and they work fantastic keeping the labels dry. Haven't heard anyone mention denatured alcohol as apposed to rubbing, anyone use this? Always heard it was better for tape heads as it leaves absolutely no water behind to cause corrosion. Figured it had to be better for the records too, even though we're cleaning them with water, LOL. Added a little to the spritz sprayer with distilled water for the final rinse and it seems to aid in the drying process. As for the micro fiber towels, I tried those but the lint left behind was not very musical. So I thought to try a Chamois, it wasn't any better so now I just let them air dry with much better results. Have a jeweler's loop and upon inspecting the stylus after a third play through following drying with any towel there was still debris showing. After air drying, the stylus looked identical to the before picture after the first play, so I'm sticking with the air dry method, less work anyway, just need a little patience is all. For those interested, the Chamois was 1000X more efficient in removing the water than the micro fiber towels, the vinyl was COMPLETELY dry with very little contact.