Rega tonearm on Technics SL 1210 mk2

[Andrei]

Recently I got a Rega Planar 3 50th Anniversary turntable that walked all over my Technics SL 1210 mk2 (really major difference sonically). IMO, that tonearm on the Rega is really something. So I plan to replace the tonearm on the Technics with a Rega tonearm from Mastersound.
The tonearm comes complete with armboard and the guys from Mastersound claim that replacing is a pretty straightforward process.
They have a video on it, you just unscrew and take out the old tonearm and screw in the new one. Or so it seems. They say that beside adjustments like tracking force you dont have to do anything.
What worries me, though, is the different geometry of the Rega straight tonearm compared to Technics' S shape one or things like the overhang, the distance to spindle, etc.
Will I really be able to adjust the cartridge using a protractor? Is it really that simple?

 

[grubyhalo]

Not speaking from experience but if I was in your place, I would consider an Audiomods Classic III or even a Classic Six before finalizing a Rega-style arm. I suspect that either would work in fine with a Mastersounds arm-board on an SL1210. Jeff Spall (jeff@audiomods.co.uk) is extremely responsive and helpful if you have any questions.

 

[flavio81]

Recently I got a Rega Planar 3 50th Anniversary turntable that walked all over my Technics SL 1210 mk2 (really major difference sonically). IMO, that tonearm on the Rega is really something.

Correct.

So I plan to replace the tonearm on the Technics with a Rega tonearm from Mastersound.

Make sure that you're getting a rega tonearm of the level of the RP3, that is, either the RB303 or the RB330 tonearms.

The tonearm comes complete with armboard and the guys from Mastersound claim that replacing is a pretty straightforward process.
They have a video on it, you just unscrew and take out the old tonearm and screw in the new one. Or so it seems. They say that beside adjustments like tracking force you dont have to do anything.
What worries me, though, is the different geometry of the Rega straight tonearm compared to Technics' S shape one or things like the overhang, the distance to spindle, etc.

If they are selling a readymadce armboard, this in theory means they are respecting the correct turntable-spindle-to-tonearm-pivot distance for Rega tonearms. Which is exactly 222 mm measured from the turntable spindle to the tonearm pivot center.

If they aren't mounting the Rega at this distance, they should give you the money back.

Will I really be able to adjust the cartridge using a protractor? Is it really that simple?

Yes, you will use the protractor and it will work fine.

 

[mrwood200]

Recently I got a Rega Planar 3 50th Anniversary turntable that walked all over my Technics SL 1210 mk2 (really major difference sonically).

Thanks for sharing - I had no idea this product was out there.
And I am surprised with your results! Enough to warrant a £1,095+ upgrade!
(Disclaimer - no disrespect to your opinion or test results - just curious!)

I have an older P3 w/RB300 AND sl1200mk2, and I am surprised with 'really major' preference for Rega.
For your testing, was everything the same except turntable? same cartridge, phono, gain setting, etc?
Assuming same cartridge, any reason to believe different install/alignment helped improve sound??

With my 2x TT today, my rega is the 'better' table chiefly due to the cartridge. Once I upgrade cart on technics, rega should return to #2.
I like everything better on technics, especially quartz lock DD; Rega arm could be sonically better, but I need removeable headshell.
My technics is actually on the kitchen table today waiting for me to install KAB damper upgrade.
Did you consider adding damper to your technics? or new high-end technics TT?

 

[flavio81]

I have an older P3 w/RB300 AND sl1200mk2, and I am surprised with 'really major' preference for Rega.
For your testing, was everything the same except turntable? same cartridge, phono, gain setting, etc?
Assuming same cartridge, any reason to believe different install/alignment helped improve sound??

Why are you so surprised?

With my 2x TT today, my rega is the 'better' table chiefly due to the cartridge. Once I upgrade cart on technics, rega should return to #2.

This implies the cartridge is the sole responsible for sound quality and nothing else matters. It is not the case.

Among other things, the tonearm has a big influence in sound quality and the tonearm of the Rega P3 is much better than the one on the SL-1200MK2. Now, the latest model of the 1200 line has an improved tonearm, though.

I like everything better on technics, especially quartz lock DD

Quartz lock has zero influence in sound quality! Furthermore, for most turntables, the way the circuit works, it doesn't even have major influence on wow and flutter either. What it achieves is long term (i.e. after minutes or hours) exactitude of the average speed (i.e. 33.3333RPM). Which is relevant if you are doing radio programs or transcriptions.

Rega arm could be sonically better, but I need removeable headshell.

Of course, removable headshell is a big plus.

My technics is actually on the kitchen table today waiting for me to install KAB damper upgrade.
Did you consider adding damper to your technics? or new high-end technics TT?

Damper is a good upgrade. There was an aftermarket fluid damper for the Rega tonearms too.

 

[sound hound]

Recently I got a Rega Planar 3 50th Anniversary turntable that walked all over my Technics SL 1210 mk2 (really major difference sonically). IMO, that tonearm on the Rega is really something. So I plan to replace the tonearm on the Technics with a Rega tonearm from Mastersound.

For me, your posting has heuristic value. It got me interested and I looked at some reviews of the Rega RB330 tonearm. I am prejudiced toward Technics/SME S shaped tonearms with their utility in changing cartridges, but was intrigued by the Rega's ratings. I would suggest though that comparing a Technics SL-1200 stock tonearm with the Rega is a bit unfair considering the price difference between the two arms. I also question the practicality of taking a tonearm that was designed around Rega's belt drive turntable and using it on a direct drive turntable. But I am willing to be educated about such matters. Please keep us informed about your progress.

 

[tabarddn51]

Hi, Yep a bit of a rip off IMHO, you can buy the 303 for half that price & a rewire shop be no more that another 100.
The base is available from KAB. I agree with others if you want to go this way go Audimods.
Whichever way you go though will diffidently improve on the on any Technics or older SME arms, but you loose the flexibility of head-shell change.

The alignment (spindle to tone-arm mount) is no Biggy, just use Conrad Hoffman's alignment gauge. allows any spindle to arm length to be used.


Cheers

 

[cafe latte]

Recently I got a Rega Planar 3 50th Anniversary turntable that walked all over my Technics SL 1210 mk2 (really major difference sonically). IMO, that tonearm on the Rega is really something. So I plan to replace the tonearm on the Technics with a Rega tonearm from Mastersound.
The tonearm comes complete with armboard and the guys from Mastersound claim that replacing is a pretty straightforward process.
They have a video on it, you just unscrew and take out the old tonearm and screw in the new one. Or so it seems. They say that beside adjustments like tracking force you dont have to do anything.
What worries me, though, is the different geometry of the Rega straight tonearm compared to Technics' S shape one or things like the overhang, the distance to spindle, etc.
Will I really be able to adjust the cartridge using a protractor? Is it really that simple?

Very bad idea, rewire the Technics arm, add Kabusa.com internal damping job done.
The Rega is a good arm but not better in any way to thr stock Technics, this is hifi mag nonsense.
Don't have the plots to hand but the vibration analysis for the Gr ( the same arm) is way better than the Rega. The friction specs are better on thr Technics and thr anti skate is way better.
What oh why would you want to fit a Rega arm when you have a far better one all ready fitted.
Chris

 

[Andrei]

For your testing, was everything the same except turntable? same cartridge, phono, gain setting, etc?
Assuming same cartridge, any reason to believe different install/alignment helped improve sound??

Everything was the same and I did the comparisons with several cartridges.
The difference is really big.
Even the lows, which are some kind of strong point of the SL 1200 mk2, are more extended with the Rega.
I am not sure many people realise how good the tonearm on Planar 3 is.
The way it feels, the built quality, you can feel that it relies on extremely tight tolerances.

 

[Andrei]

Very bad idea, rewire the Technics arm, add Kabusa.com internal damping job done.
The Rega is a good arm but not better in any way to thr stock Technics, this is hifi mag nonsense.
Don't have the plots to hand but the vibration analysis for the Gr ( the same arm) is way better than the Rega. The friction specs are better on thr Technics and thr anti skate is way better.
What oh why would you want to fit a Rega arm when you have a far better one all ready fitted.
Chris

I am not sure that MK2 and GR use the same tonearm. Most certainly not the same bearings.
If I have to do rewiring and damping to make it perform, it means that it is lacking in the first place.
If I remember correctly the reviews at the time of MK2 mentioned that the tonearm resonances are all over the place.

 

[flavio81]

Don't have the plots to hand but the vibration analysis for the Gr ( the same arm)

It is not correct to assume that the tonearm on the SL-1200MK2 is the same as in the SL-1200GR, even if they look the same. The GR was an edition that intentionally improved in everything. For example, the motor is not the same at all, it is a planar motor, vs axial on the MK2/3/4/5/6... models.

A technics EPA-100 also looks very similar to the tonearm on the SL-1200MK2, for example the gimbal assembly looks the same, but it is miles ahead in performance.

 

[jamesc760]

I put a Rega RB600 arm (it's just a refined version of RB300) on my Technics SL1200Mk2 last year. I have been enjoying it ever since. It's a match made in heaven. Mk2's tone arms are by now worn out without a maintenance work; its bearings are worn, wires have become brittle and joints have become inefficient, everything's out of alignment. My Rega arm had been barely used since purchase. Don't knock it until you try it. You are getting the best of both worlds. Technics's direct drive and massive plinth and Rega's silky smooth tonearm.

 

[lazycat]

I used a fettled RB300 on my mk11 for a couple of years.

IMO it was better than the Technics, tho not a massive improvement.

It was replaced with a Roksan Tabriz which was so much better than either of the forementioned it was silly.

Still on there after 10 years.

 

[cafe latte]

It is not correct to assume that the tonearm on the SL-1200MK2 is the same as in the SL-1200GR, even if they look the same. The GR was an edition that intentionally improved in everything. For example, the motor is not the same at all, it is a planar motor, vs axial on the MK2/3/4/5/6... models.

A technics EPA-100 also looks very similar to the tonearm on the SL-1200MK2, for example the gimbal assembly looks the same, but it is miles ahead in performance.

It is when I have seen oth in the flesh.
The arm tube is the same, the bearing friction is the same.
They are basically the same arm.
Chris

 

[Andrei]

Mk2's tone arms are by now worn out without a maintenance work; its bearings are worn, wires have become brittle and joints have become inefficient, everything's out of alignment.

This is exactly what I fear the most.

You are getting the best of both worlds. Technics's direct drive and massive plinth and Rega's silky smooth tonearm.

Thank you! This is exactly what I wanted to hear.

 

[cafe latte]

I am not sure that MK2 and GR use the same tonearm. Most certainly not the same bearings.
If I have to do rewiring and damping to make it perform, it means that it is lacking in the first place.
If I remember correctly the reviews at the time of MK2 mentioned that the tonearm resonances are all over the place.

Find me a link that says this.
As far as I know it was just nonsense from hifi mags.
The bearing friction is the same for sure.
Chris

 

[cafe latte]

I put a Rega RB600 arm (it's just a refined version of RB300) on my Technics SL1200Mk2 last year. I have been enjoying it ever since. It's a match made in heaven. Mk2's tone arms are by now worn out without a maintenance work; its bearings are worn, wires have become brittle and joints have become inefficient, everything's out of alignment. My Rega arm had been barely used since purchase. Don't knock it until you try it. You are getting the best of both worlds. Technics's direct drive and massive plinth and Rega's silky smooth tonearm.

View attachment 3717371

This is nonsense.
There are mk2s from the 80s with arms still fine. The EPA-100 are very old too, if looked after thry are fine.
Also the mk2 was made till the end of production which was not that long ago.
Chris

 

[cafe latte]

I used a fettled RB300 on my mk11 for a couple of years.

IMO it was better than the Technics, tho not a massive improvement.

It was replaced with a Roksan Tabriz which was so much better than either of the forementioned it was silly.

Still on there after 10 years.

The issue with arm swaps is it takes longer than human audio memory.
The rb300 is fine for MMs but is too light for just about all decent MCs apart Rega.
One great thing great about Technics arms is the effective mass is so adjustable.
Chris

 

[Apreggiator]

..rewire the Technics arm, add Kabusa.com internal damping job done.
The Rega is a good arm but not better in any way to thr stock Technics, this is hifi mag nonsense.
Don't have the plots to hand but the vibration analysis for the Gr ( the same arm) is way better than the Rega. The friction specs are better on thr Technics and thr anti skate is way better.
What oh why would you want to fit a Rega arm when you have a far better one all ready fitted.
Chris

Audiomods (and a few similar suppliers of upgraded Rega's and/or their own follow-up products do have nice Rega arms.
The lower tier Rega arms will not get you the improvement you are looking for in my experience..
Unless the arm bearings are cooked (which is rare) the two little changes Chris proposes are the things I'd try first, next to a Jelco HS-25 headshell or similar (the top and bottom pin instead of only one pin to lock in the headshell is key).
An offboard PSU and upgraded stabilising capacitor would be the next step and I'd probably leave it at that. Perhaps a fluid damper after that, but I'd really, really dislike the dusty goop in the fluid tray.
Perhaps add fancy feet like Isonoe for fancy looks, but those are not necessary for home use ime.

P.s. I wouldn't say no to a tapering tubed SME arm on an SL1200 with psu mods.
P.p.s. Why oh why did Technics never produce a new SL1xxx with external psu and new iteration of the EPA-250...

 

[Apreggiator]

It is when I have seen oth in the flesh.
The arm tube is the same, the bearing friction is the same.
They are basically the same arm.

I have the same impression.