Rek-o-Kut Rondine Deluxe - what now

[2325Veepster]

I just bought a Rek-o-Kut Rondine Deluxe for what I think was a great deal, but what do I do now! It spins up and has no apparent major damage. The rca cables are pretty frightening so I imagine they will need to be replaced. If there's a good reference thread for a general cleaning that would be helpful, hoping that cleaning and maybe sorting the bearing oil will reduce some of the sound it makes when spinning. I'll attache a bunch of pictures too. Here's my list of questions so far:

• The motor is HUGE, it actually seems to be too big for the plinth (but it's the original stamped rek-o-kut?), the table won't sit flat and the motor is lower than the plinth bottom?
• The indicator for speed and on/off is a bit vague, it works but it's sort of loose until you hit the off/33/45 etc. Maybe that's how they usually are but I've never had one.
• The arm is a RoK model 120, still looking this up, it has this sort of coil between the pivot and the headshell, it looks like a tight spring, and it loosely slides along the tonearm between the pivot and headshell collar. Is that supposed to be there?
• It came with a Shure rxt-4 cartridge and N97E of unknown age and condition. With some quick searches it seems this is a descent cart, but I also read somewhere else that this arm is heavy and might need higher force capabilities. I have a couple other options, an old Pickering/Stanton 380 with a generic new stylus from VOM, a gold Stanton 500 with an original white and light blue dot stylus, and an nos shure 93e that is the backup for my AR XB. Would any of these be a better/appropriate fit?

 

[adnick]

Congrats, that’s a great table, very top of the line. It’s missing the feet on the plinth that’s why the plinth doesn’t seem deep enough….

There’s literally 100s of pages on the ROK Rondine, suggest you do some reading

VR
Andy

 

[JFRACE]

motor can be taken apart and cleaned out, or put more oil into oil holes, the spindle bearing should be cleaned with alcohol as well as the well, and ball bearing,then use a light oil in there and cover the ball bearing. New cap on the start switch couldn't hurt either,and buff the spindle on the platter. Add the missing feet, and you have a good starting point.

 

[2325Veepster]

Thanks that’s helpful, sounds similar to when I cleaned the AR, I have some white lily oil I think from that. The oil in there now looks brown like a car oil or something.

 

[KentTeffeteller]

H with hysteresis-synchronous motor the best (especially if the motor is built by Ashland), GH with the Papst German built hysteresis-synchronous motor second best. The former is broadcast studio accurate, and the motor rebuildable by any good industrial motor repair shop. Your motor is built by Ashland, you have the real Broadcast Studio turntable ROK built, the best they built, period, full stop.

 

[Nat]

As pointed out, cleaning and relubing is needed - the spindle looks to have a fair amount of varnish or whatever crudified old oil is called, and that probably will affect the sound.
A massive plinth is a good idea. Probably rerubbering the idlers is also a good idea.
The arm is a heavy one, and I'm not sure what you mean by a coil sliding on the arm, but it looks like the collet for the bayonet mount is not attached - either not cinched up, or it is mounted backwards or something since it appears not to be engaged and that is what slides back and forth- I'm guessing because the picture isn't close up. If you can pull the headshell out, it isn't locked. And it is supposed to be.
Be that as it may - you are right that the Realistic cartridge mounted is not ideal. It is too high compliance for the arm, and the arm, especially if the bearings aren't clean, may have too much friction for the cartridge to track well at the appropriate tracking force.
There are cartridges that would be a good match for the arm, assuming it is in good condition, but if you are planning to use this as your main table (a worthy goal), a more modern arm would be an improvement.

 

[Sam Cogley]

That's the original Ashland motor for the B12H. It's huge, but it's supposed to be that way.

 

[2325Veepster]

As pointed out, cleaning and relubing is needed - the spindle looks to have a fair amount of varnish or whatever crudified old oil is called, and that probably will affect the sound.
A massive plinth is a good idea. Probably rerubbering the idlers is also a good idea.
The arm is a heavy one, and I'm not sure what you mean by a coil sliding on the arm, but it looks like the collet for the bayonet mount is not attached - either not cinched up, or it is mounted backwards or something since it appears not to be engaged and that is what slides back and forth- I'm guessing because the picture isn't close up. If you can pull the headshell out, it isn't locked. And it is supposed to be.
Be that as it may - you are right that the Realistic cartridge mounted is not ideal. It is too high compliance for the arm, and the arm, especially if the bearings aren't clean, may have too much friction for the cartridge to track well at the appropriate tracking force.
There are cartridges that would be a good match for the arm, assuming it is in good condition, but if you are planning to use this as your main table (a worthy goal), a more modern arm would be an improvement.

Thanks for the info. I’m still working through information overload on several large ROK threads. I don’t know if this will take over primary from the AR XB anytime soon. It’s way taller and wont fit on the table under the TV and also has no dust cover leaving it vulnerable to the toddler with an affinity for spinning objects. I’ll pull the realistic cart and maybe try one of the Stanton’s pending the arm condition. The 380 is a monster and can handle a large arm. I’ll have to think about what to do if the table needs a full arm swap.

I’ve zoomed in on the tonearm object, it’s not pictured near the headshell, it’s back toward the pivot. You can see it around the arm right above “rek” on the tonearm label. Not being able to see it slide all over, it almost looks like it’s meant to be where it’s sitting in the picture. When I can get back to the basement this weekend I can try further examination, maybe it’s something that was just put there from the PO needing to store it and now wanting it to go missing (whatever it is).

 

[adnick]

I’ll have to respectively disagree about doing away with the. ROK arm, just because it’s a ROK arm, variances in those arms were made & sold into 1990s and and one can see many of the attributes of the ROK arm design in other arms that have similar features….

.The biggest distraction for the use of them is the proprietary headshells, and those headshells come in various weights from very light to very heavy, have one that’s almost 40 grams! Because of the proprietary design they are expensive when in good shape.

However the arm on your table is a 120, and was originally mono, and I’ve never seen a 120 with the “collar” like on yours. Does it slide or is it fixed, or look like it’s actually theaded into the pivot area? Many 120 arms and headshells were modified to be used for stereo, Being an older mono type arm makes it less desired by many but there’s still a market for one in original shape.

My guess is that your arm has been modified but you’ll have to determine that, and you’ll have to decide if mono is something you’re interested in. If that headshell is untouched it probably be worth more than the arm itself, and again, I’ve never seen one with the angled lift, that is probably extremely rare? It’s certainly an interesting arm to be explored for its uniqueness….

Many different arms will work in the original hole, and I’d certainly not alter an original Rondine Deluxe table if it hasn’t been modified….

You’ve got a very special table, they are getting very hard to find, it has huge potential.

VR
Andy

 

[2325Veepster]

I’ll have to respectively disagree about doing away with the. ROK arm, just because it’s a ROK arm, variances in those arms were made & sold into 1990s and and one can see many of the attributes of the ROK arm design in other arms that have similar features….

.The biggest distraction for the use of them is the proprietary headshells, and those headshells come in various weights from very light to very heavy, have one that’s almost 40 grams! Because of the proprietary design they are expensive when in good shape.

However the arm on your table is a 120, and was originally mono, and I’ve never seen a 120 with the “collar” like on yours. Does it slide or is it fixed, or look like it’s actually theaded into the pivot area? Many 120 arms and headshells were modified to be used for stereo, Being an older mono type arm makes it less desired by many but there’s still a market for one in original shape.

My guess is that your arm has been modified but you’ll have to determine that, and you’ll have to decide if mono is something you’re interested in. If that headshell is untouched it probably be worth more than the arm itself, and again, I’ve never seen one with the angled lift, that is probably extremely rare? It’s certainly an interesting arm to be explored for its uniqueness….

Many different arms will work in the original hole, and I’d certainly not alter an original Rondine Deluxe table if it hasn’t been modified….

You’ve got a very special table, they are getting very hard to find, it has huge potential.

VR
Andy

I have seen some of this mixed review of the arms. If this was a primary deck I’d like stereo, I’ll check also to see evidence of modification and/or the headshell as you suggested.

Is the threading by the pivot you’re referencing maybe the thing I’m trying to identify? I found another picture I took right after purchase that shows this object slid all the way to the tonearm rest, it’s like a wire coil around the tonearm.

 

[adnick]

I have seen some of this mixed review of the arms. If this was a primary deck I’d like stereo, I’ll check also to see evidence of modification and/or the headshell as you suggested.

Is the threading by the pivot you’re referencing maybe the thing I’m trying to identify? I found another picture I took right after purchase that shows this object slid all the way to the tonearm rest, it’s like a wire coil around the tonearm.

Yes, that looks like a modification, reminds me of an ATP 12/16T, it’s generally used to dial in the tracking force….

Like I said many god arms to choose from including S220 and/or 320, Micropoise ROK arms, I’ve ran them and they are fine tonearms but the headshells can be problematic in weight & cost…..

There’s lots of tweaks, putting a couple of sectioned compartments in that plinth could be done cheaply, then fill the compartments with something like kitty litter it will or very well. You could also line the inside face of the wood plinth with Dynamat type material….

The addition of a Delrin idler has paid dividends in my builds, and on my personal tables the steel ball gets replaced with a Delrin ball or pad. That takes monitoring, but it’s not going to wear out in a month, some of mine have ran over a year without much wear…


Obviously these things are after general maintenance.

 

[2325Veepster]

So I found that the tonearm has been wired straight through to the cart and soldered right to the cart pins. The arm itself didn’t seem to provide much of any downforce, the weight only seemed to provide negative force and zeroed out when all the way in. But that little piece of spring coiled around the tonearm provided about 1.8-2g when slid to the arm curve. I think a new arm might be needed…

I’d love a Micropoise or something else that fits the aesthetic and can be a good arm, I don’t need something wild. It seems hard to find anything like that for less than the cost of a whole complete turntable??

 

[adnick]

So I found that the tonearm has been wired straight through to the cart and soldered right to the cart pins. The arm itself didn’t seem to provide much of any downforce, the weight only seemed to provide negative force and zeroed out when all the way in. But that little piece of spring coiled around the tonearm provided about 1.8-2g when slid to the arm curve. I think a new arm might be needed…

I’d love a Micropoise or something else that fits the aesthetic and can be a good arm, I don’t need something wild. It seems hard to find anything like that for less than the cost of a whole complete turntable??

So they drilled through the headshell to pass the wire through? If so that’s a fairly common thing done to otherwise good mono headshells….

I traded for a box of ROK tonearms including a couple of Micropoise arms one of them looks fairly good, but I’m not sure how good it is, if you’re interested send a message.

With all that said there’s many arms that will work.

VR
Andy

 

[2325Veepster]

Message sent (I think! Are they called conversations now?). Yea they were pretty rough with this arm. They also partially melted the cart when soldering! The angle of the lift arm seems original though based on the threading inside.

 

[adnick]

Again, that’s a very unique headshell….

 

[Sam Cogley]

That's the original Ashland motor for the B12H. It's huge, but it's supposed to be that way.

For clarification of my previous post, the Rondine Deluxe was the early branding of the B12H (for hysteresis), which used that coffee-can sized Ashland motor. The Rondine was the B12, which used a more pedestrian motor (I forget which, but I think it was the ubiquitous "Borg death cube" motor that was used for decades in everything from turntables to organ tone cabinets). The rather less commonly-seen B12GH used a smaller Papst hysteresis motor, as used in the Fairchild 412 and other vintage tables of high quality. They later moved the model names to a more prominent positioning and ditched the "Rondine" name, whereas with the early tables the model number was only on the tag under the platter.

 

[2325Veepster]

Well after some oiling the motor is now silent when running with the platter off, the platter spins great and doesn’t make much of any sound when spinning by hand, but man that idler wheel makes quite a loud sound as soon as it hits that spindle. When I spin the idler by hand it’s pretty quiet, does alignment really quiet that down that drastically? Maybe I need a new idler wheel, no idea how old this one is but it looks original. It’s not hard or cracked. I’ll have to source a place to get them. Esoteric gave me a strange response by email which makes me think twice about buying there.

 

[adnick]

Well after some oiling the motor is now silent when running with the platter off, the platter spins great and doesn’t make much of any sound when spinning by hand, but man that idler wheel makes quite a loud sound as soon as it hits that spindle. When I spin the idler by hand it’s pretty quiet, does alignment really quiet that down that drastically? Maybe I need a new idler wheel, no idea how old this one is but it looks original. It’s not hard or cracked. I’ll have to source a place to get them. Esoteric gave me a strange response by email which makes me think twice about buying there.

With the idler secured, try rocking it “upa&down” by putting pressure on opposite sides, there shouldn’t be much, almost no, play… it’s kinda hard to explain but it’s like a wheel bearing, with play it will wobble.

The bronze bushing might be worn, you can also use a micrometer to check the shaft, but it’s usually the bushing.

If you need an idler you can have it rebuilt, or my buddy makes Delrin idlers with replaceable rubber rings, both options work well.

Andy

 

[Sam Cogley]

Well after some oiling the motor is now silent when running with the platter off, the platter spins great and doesn’t make much of any sound when spinning by hand, but man that idler wheel makes quite a loud sound as soon as it hits that spindle. When I spin the idler by hand it’s pretty quiet, does alignment really quiet that down that drastically? Maybe I need a new idler wheel, no idea how old this one is but it looks original. It’s not hard or cracked. I’ll have to source a place to get them. Esoteric gave me a strange response by email which makes me think twice about buying there.

I don't know what Esoteric might have said, and I haven't done business with them for several years, but they've always been a reliable outfit.

 

[2325Veepster]

I’ve assembled some parts (with some help ). Headshell on the way, went with the plastic version off the bay at least until I get this going, then maybe I’ll source an original or something more for the Micropoise… or see if the one I have can somehow have the pins rebuilt and used.

All I need is some interconnects/rca which I’m working on figuring out if I should put an rca port in or solder the interconnect direct like it is now to the little panel where the tonearm wires connect. Does anyone know, do I need to have a thicker-than-tonearm-wire for the stress relief grommet? I bought the replacement from Mouser but now I’m wondering if it’s even needed.

Sam, in Esoteric’s defense, I asked a newbie ROK question (like I do here). For a starter kit/list of their products to rebuild my rondine deluxe. They said they only sell items for the models listed on the site, they’re not familiar with my model (which is what made me skeptical) and there’s an idler rebuilder link. I’m used to other types of parts suppliers where there’s a discussion or exchange possible, it helps me personally when sorting through a lot of options, information, and price points. I also learn from the back and forth with those more knowledgeable, but I suppose that’s really what a forum is for right?