Reliability of Mcintosh pre amps

[Rich Andrews]

Dip chip puller? I have not used one of those in over 20 years. I used one once and that was the end of that nonsense. I have not used one since. I even bought a DIP soldering tool that heats all the pins at once. All of it was a waste of time and money.

Once I suck the solder out of the hole with a Soldapullt(tm) then break the remaining bond between the lead and the via with a small probe, the chip falls out. On stubborn chips/boards I will cut the leads off flush he body of the chip and then clean up with a Soldapullt.

An 8 pin DIP should be a piece of cake to remove.

 

[vinylisfinal]

C 28 , no issues.. daily use.

 

[Gregory]

Dip chip puller? I have not used one of those in over 20 years. I used one once and that was the end of that nonsense. I have not used one since. I even bought a DIP soldering tool that heats all the pins at once. All of it was a waste of time and money.

Once I suck the solder out of the hole with a Soldapullt(tm) then break the remaining bond between the lead and the via with a small probe, the chip falls out. On stubborn chips/boards I will cut the leads off flush he body of the chip and then clean up with a Soldapullt.

An 8 pin DIP should be a piece of cake to remove.

Ok fine.. the C33 op-amps are 8-pin socketed IIRC. What is the "best practice" way to remove them? IOW what is your procedure? anyone? I'm not going to pry and hack at any of these components. Hope y'all understand.

Preferably.. there's a plastic puller available that would grab the op-amp at both ends and rock it end-to-end until it lifts straight away. I pulled many inline ICs when I was a lad, and they came out one side, while the other pins were still engaged.. and all kinds of chop-chop variations. :nono:

Are there any ESD issues?


-Gregory

 

[Rich Andrews]

What I have found works very well for socketed ICs is an Xcelite R3324. It is what I have used for years. While a puller sounds like a good idea, I have found that no puller really pulls the IC out straight. The little Xcelite even gets underneath those chips that have zero clearance between the body of the IC and the socket. It is that clearance issue that causes IC pullers to be useless. To use the IC puller, the IC has to be lifted up using a small screwdriver then the puller placed under the body of the chip. By the time the puller is placed into position, the screwdriver would have the chip pulled out.

Read the thread listed below as well. I just happened to pick a site at random.

http://www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum/showthread.php?19186-IC-chip-puller

 

[jlovda]

What I have found works very well for socketed ICs is an Xcelite R3324. It is what I have used for years. While a puller sounds like a good idea, I have found that no puller really pulls the IC out straight. The little Xcelite even gets underneath those chips that have zero clearance between the body of the IC and the socket. It is that clearance issue that causes IC pullers to be useless. To use the IC puller, the IC has to be lifted up using a small screwdriver then the puller placed under the body of the chip. By the time the puller is placed into position, the screwdriver would have the chip pulled out.

I agree 100%. I replaced several ICs in my c34V and used a small screwdriver. It just needs to be short enough to get into tight places.

 

[Dp400]

People are passionate about their old McIntosh just like a fine vintage camera, watch or sports car. The quality of the repair depends on the skill and experience of the technician of course.

Thanks again,
Ron-C

I think people buy Mcintosh or High End equipment for great sound, great design and great reliability. Mcintosh can deliver great sound and great design. With the reliability I am not so sure, after my expierence with MCD 201 and C45.
I admire person like "Gregory" who can repair there own equipment or even improve the Stereo equipment with new ideas.
But 95% of the customers cannot repair a pre amp like the C45 or C33. For them it is a lot of hazzle, anger and a lot of repair cost. The repair of the C45 cost me 500€. Repair of the MCD 201 cost me nothing because it was in the warranty time.

So I think the right answer from Mcintosh should be: yes, we will do everything to improve our products.

I have to mention, that I have also a MC 252, which works perfect since the first day. That I changed the C45 to a C48, which works also perfect since the first day. And that I changed the MCD 201 to a Accuphase DP400. This unit is for me perfection in High End.

 

[Rich Andrews]

In looking over the schematics for the C45 I can see part of the reason for the high repair bills on that item. It has 5 channels, is balanced and unbalanced and also has a tuner option all wrapped in digital controls. That plus the sexy digital display all add to the complexity. In McIntosh's defense, they have given the customers exactly what they asked for.

 

[Bubo]

In looking over the schematics for the C45 I can see part of the reason for the high repair bills on that item. It has 5 channels, is balanced and unbalanced and also has a tuner option all wrapped in digital controls. That plus the sexy digital display all add to the complexity. In McIntosh's defense, they have given the customers exactly what they asked for.

Rich,

Couldn't agree more, one of the reasons I have stayed with my very low tech stereo systems is reliability, MTTR and future parts availability.

On my Mac system, I use an Emotiva XDA-1 pre amp with all of the digital interfaces to front end the C-32 which is also connected to my MR-78, and 2205. For all practice purposes, the XDA-1 is disposable, and in a few years newer processors, and firmware will have made it obsolete.

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Martin,

While I have a lot of experience in the electronics industry, I was the product management and marketing guy. So when it can't be fixed with a hammer and a pair of pliers, I usually have to send it out.

In my area, I auditioned 4 different repair shops with varying results. For repairs I settled on the shop that stands behind their work. A lot of my gear will need complete rebuilds, and for that work I will probably be using a shop that is out in the country about 75 miles from my house, they too are capable and have a lower labor rate. They also do complete restorations. They literally have stacks of vintage gear in their lobby and front desk that is brought in for updating. 3 or 4 shops have refused to consider complete recaps, I suspect they only have one tech and need to turn a lot of repairs around quickly, so back into spec and that is it.

As to reliability, I think my gear has been great. It was all in good working order when I dropped it off at the Mac factory for a service ( like a spa day for the girls ) this was the first service the gear ever had.

For reasons I'll skip over; the gear sat in the boxes for 6-7 years. So when I got it all hooked up and running again the 2205 wanted a little more love to get it working properly, about $270 of love.

My EE friend who designs chips always reminds me to keep the gear charged up since the caps don't like to sit empty.


If you don't use it, you lose it??

 

[jlovda]

If you buy a Honda, replacement spark plugs cost less than $5. I'll bet the spark plugs for a Ferrari cost a lot more than that. The number of qualified technicians, the salary they demand and the complexity of the units all come together to reach the current costs. A friend of mine recently paid $600 (included round trip shipping) at a very well known Mac repair center to fix an MC2200 amp. If you have to ask the repair cost I guess you can't afford one. LOL

 

[Bubo]

If you buy a Honda, replacement spark plugs cost less than $5. I'll bet the spark plugs for a Ferrari cost a lot more than that. The number of qualified technicians, the salary they demand and the complexity of the units all come together to reach the current costs. A friend of mine recently paid $600 (included round trip shipping) at a very well known Mac repair center to fix an MC2200 amp. If you have to ask the repair cost I guess you can't afford one. LOL

Are you saying your friend overpaid?

 

[Rich Andrews]

If you buy a Honda, replacement spark plugs cost less than $5. I'll bet the spark plugs for a Ferrari cost a lot more than that.

Call up a Ferrari dealership and ask what they charge for an oil change. You will be amazed.

 

[Bubo]

Call up a Ferrari dealership and ask what they charge for an oil change. You will be amazed.

LOL reminds me of my beloved MB 300SD, its not just a brake pad, its a German brake pad, well maybe Chinese or US or French.

Didn't take to long to figure out I could buy all of the TOTL OEM parts online and have my local former MB mechanic do the work at 1/4 the cost, while he made double his old salary.

Perhaps Ferrari uses Italian Oil, wait there isn't any.

 

[jlovda]

Are you saying your friend overpaid?

I personally thought so but you don't know the cost until the work is done. They changed three components to fix the problem but did not recap anything and didn't even clean the dust from the inside. It just about doubled the cost he paid for the amp.

 

[Rich Andrews]

http://www.secretentourage.com/lifestyle/autos/cost-of-ownership-of-an-exotic-car/

"A typical oil change on a Ferrari F430 will run you $500, and about $800 for a Ferrari F360 Modena, or $1100 for a Ferrari F355. This typical oil change needs to occur every 5000 miles or once a year since most owners don’t drive their cars 5000 miles a year. Other typical maintenance items include spark plugs at an average of $3000, belts every 15000 miles at an average of $4000..."


Owning a Ferrari is cool. The maintenance bills are not.


Richard

 

[ssmith3046]

That's why I traded my Ferrari in for a Hyundai

 

[brichter]

If you buy a Honda, replacement spark plugs cost less than $5. I'll bet the spark plugs for a Ferrari cost a lot more than that. The number of qualified technicians, the salary they demand and the complexity of the units all come together to reach the current costs. A friend of mine recently paid $600 (included round trip shipping) at a very well known Mac repair center to fix an MC2200 amp. If you have to ask the repair cost I guess you can't afford one. LOL

Drive the Honda, then drive the Ferrari. You will understand. :yes: :lmao:

 

[Bubo]

I personally thought so but you don't know the cost until the work is done. They changed three components to fix the problem but did not recap anything and didn't even clean the dust from the inside. It just about doubled the cost he paid for the amp.

Typically, I get a lot of work done for $150-300.

There must be a competent shop in his area.

 

[Bubo]

Drive the Honda, then drive the Ferrari. You will understand. :yes: :lmao:

Driving past the factory heading North to the Brenner Pass, the factory's production for the day passed us 4 times on the Autostrata, twice in each direction. I think we were doing 75mph.

 

[brichter]

Driving past the factory heading North to the Brenner Pass, the factory's production for the day passed us 4 times on the Autostrata, twice in each direction. I think we were doing 75mph.

Man, 10 of those in a row must sound like the entrance to Nirvana! :drool:

 

[Bubo]

Man, 10 of those in a row must sound like the entrance to Nirvana! :drool:

1975, I think it was 4 or 5 of them, drivers in uniforms and helmets. Sound was cool, they blew past us like we were parked. We saw a fair number of cars that were flying compared to us, but no one was driving as fast as the factory guys.

In those days, the AutoStrada was relatively empty.