I have a nice set of 2CI that we enjoy immensely but we are remodeling the living room & are remodeling around the speakers as they are picky regarding placement. I have to agree with the decorator in chief that this is a little silly. I'm looking for alternative full range speakers that would be more flexible regarding placement. Listen to classical, main stream jazz, vocals, I want to hear all the instruments in the orchestra - not hard rockers here. Driving these with Onkyo Integra amp & pre. Room is 12 X 16. Appreciate suggestions - under $1000, vintage is fine.
replacements for Vandersteens ??
- Thread starter Bob in WI
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ghamilton
Super Member
The model one is perfect. You can get a used pair for a song. Click below:...
http://vandersteen.com//media/files/Reprints/tone_vandersteen1ci_review.pdf
http://vandersteen.com//media/files/Reprints/tone_vandersteen1ci_review.pdf
cratz2
Addicted Member
Do you generally feel the Vandersteens are balanced the way you'd like in an ideal world? They aren't exactly the same sound by any stretch, but the NHT 2.5is are what I ended up with. At that point, I was somewhat set on the 2Cis but I was also considering the Linn Keilidhs, PSB Stratus Gold (or Silver) and the NHT 2.5is. I ended up with the NHTs. They are definitely brighter than the Vandersteens and they lack a bit of warmth, but they allow for more detail and seemingly more dynamics with modest-ish power.
A few pair of speakers have come and gone since then (including eventually buying the Keilidhs for another system) but the NHTs are still here and still hooked up. Again, they are brighter than the Vandersteens but I think they sound fantastic. They work well placed fairly close to the front wall... they are designed to be about 8" to 15" away for proper bass loading.
A few pair of speakers have come and gone since then (including eventually buying the Keilidhs for another system) but the NHTs are still here and still hooked up. Again, they are brighter than the Vandersteens but I think they sound fantastic. They work well placed fairly close to the front wall... they are designed to be about 8" to 15" away for proper bass loading.
Tough act to follow. Yes vandys are a bit homely and do have location requirements.. But they work surprisingly well.
Dunno if buying the lesser/smaller version 1 will make for a clever substitution though.
Most any speaker that will equal of better the 2ce's will be of similar size and room presence.
Book shelf speakers are for tiny rooms in my experience and they lack any worthwhile bass,
typically requiring the use of a pair of subs.. which often (too?) don't mesh well sonically.
Keep your speakers and move them into your 'Own" room??
Audionote makes a V nice set to audition, but no less a room presence than the vandy's.
Dunno if buying the lesser/smaller version 1 will make for a clever substitution though.
Most any speaker that will equal of better the 2ce's will be of similar size and room presence.
Book shelf speakers are for tiny rooms in my experience and they lack any worthwhile bass,
typically requiring the use of a pair of subs.. which often (too?) don't mesh well sonically.
Keep your speakers and move them into your 'Own" room??
Audionote makes a V nice set to audition, but no less a room presence than the vandy's.
gladiator335
MRTI
Vandersteen replacements
Generally correct, but....
I have Paradigm Studio Reference 20 and they filled my living room - no problem. :thmbsp:
So I wouldn't discount certain bookshel speakers yet.
Generally correct, but....
I have Paradigm Studio Reference 20 and they filled my living room - no problem. :thmbsp:
So I wouldn't discount certain bookshel speakers yet.
frommerstop
Super Member
While I don't know exactly what your room/esthetic situation is, I'd suggest you might do well to look into speakers that are designed to work well against a wall, or even in a corner. I'm thinking something like Allison Ones, or maybe CD-9s if you're more inclined toward a modern style. Perhaps Snell As, they ARE very large, but since they would be positioned against the wall rather than out in the room by a few feet, as needed with your Vandies, they are often much easier to work around in decorating a room.
I used to have Klipschorns and it was amazing how they can disappear in a room because of their corner placement... not that I'm recommending K-horns as Vandersteen replacements!
...just food for thought. :scratch2:
I used to have Klipschorns and it was amazing how they can disappear in a room because of their corner placement... not that I'm recommending K-horns as Vandersteen replacements!
...just food for thought. :scratch2:
"look into speakers that are designed to work well against a wall, or even in a corner" That is the essence of the issue. The Vandies need to be out is space, my tolerant wife thinks that space should be for people. When the listening room is your living room, there are compromises to be made. We love the presence & fullness of the Vandies - that will be tough to duplicate but the Vandies are not the most detailed or "exact" speakers ever made so maybe we'll sacrifice one strength for another. Its tough making these decisions because you can't audition the vintage choices - not in a known environment anyway.
frommerstop
Super Member
You're right, the main reason for the trend towards speakers being moved out into the listening space is to help increase that "airy" feeling and imaging detail. There have been a few speakers that did a really good job in that area even pushed up against the wall, but they are the exceptions, not the rule.
As mentioned, the Allisons Ones were quite good, having been specifically designed to be placed ONLY up against the back wall and they have a similar tonal balance to your 2Cs. You'd loose a little in top end detail I suspect, but not so much as to be disappointing IMO - Allison Twos are just smaller versions of the same design, so the sound is almost identical, only they give up a few Hz at the bottom. If you have two good corners and can find them, Allison Threes are half of the Ones, designed to be put all the way in the corner, so VERY unobtrusive!
If you can find a pair of Snell As, they too would sound familiar to you, with a lovely full bodied sound and excellent driver integration, but you'll loose a bit of stage depth IME. Bass is similar to the 2Cs, but perhaps not going quite as low... I never found my As wanting in bass depth, but I'm not a real bass freak either.
As mentioned, the Allisons Ones were quite good, having been specifically designed to be placed ONLY up against the back wall and they have a similar tonal balance to your 2Cs. You'd loose a little in top end detail I suspect, but not so much as to be disappointing IMO - Allison Twos are just smaller versions of the same design, so the sound is almost identical, only they give up a few Hz at the bottom. If you have two good corners and can find them, Allison Threes are half of the Ones, designed to be put all the way in the corner, so VERY unobtrusive!
If you can find a pair of Snell As, they too would sound familiar to you, with a lovely full bodied sound and excellent driver integration, but you'll loose a bit of stage depth IME. Bass is similar to the 2Cs, but perhaps not going quite as low... I never found my As wanting in bass depth, but I'm not a real bass freak either.
EPI-Center
Super Member
get some allison 3's and put one in each corner....
or get some thiel cs2
or get some thiel cs2
frommerstop
Super Member
Unfortunately Allison 3s are like hen's teeth and they do require two good corners - surprisingly unusual in most listening/living rooms. The 1s & 2s are not common either, but with a bit of patience they are available... I actually saw a pair of 1s on ebay just a few days ago.
RGA
Super Member
Bob I just reviewed the Audio Note AX Two which lists for $1,000 and is designed to be placed right up against the wall nearly touching. As are all Audio Note speakers. They are all very easy to drive - 7 watts to 150 watts and were designed by Andy Whittle for Audio Note. Andy Whittle is well known the Rogers LS-3/5a guru and for Celestion. The AX Two sounds better IMO than LS-3/5a speakers and is much easier to drive and has better deeper bass response.
There is also an AZ (Absolute Zero) AZ2 and AZ3 floorstanders which are $1500 and $2000 new. But second hand might be worth a look. I realize these are difficult to find and a little off the mainstream but they'll be worth your time.
I am not allowed to direct link to my review but if you google Audio Note AX Two and dagogo you can find it. The AX Two is a standmount and you will give up some bass - the AZ Three however reaches 25hz flat in room from the corner position. Here is the AZ Three in corners being run by 8 watts. The downside might be the looks - the woofers are blue and made of HEMP and there are no covers. The AX Two has covers but sound better with them off.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxOqnsioKFI
There is also an AZ (Absolute Zero) AZ2 and AZ3 floorstanders which are $1500 and $2000 new. But second hand might be worth a look. I realize these are difficult to find and a little off the mainstream but they'll be worth your time.
I am not allowed to direct link to my review but if you google Audio Note AX Two and dagogo you can find it. The AX Two is a standmount and you will give up some bass - the AZ Three however reaches 25hz flat in room from the corner position. Here is the AZ Three in corners being run by 8 watts. The downside might be the looks - the woofers are blue and made of HEMP and there are no covers. The AX Two has covers but sound better with them off.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxOqnsioKFI
Putterman
Super Member
A couple of full sized speakers designed for wall placement are the Boston Acoustic A400 (actually any of that series, i.e. A200, A150, etc.) and in a new speaker the Silent Speaker ($900) as well as his older designs, the EPI 201 and Epicure 20 which are all designed for wall placement.
You want to 'better' the Vandys on the cheap??
Not that easy... Maybe used Panel speakers ?
New stuff that would far exceed your expectations.. IF.. the electronics are worthy..
Look here: http://www.audionote.co.uk/products/speakers/spkr_home_01.shtml
OR here : http://www.tannoy.com/residential/#!series_1156
NEITHER is cheap....though. But these also dominate the room Decor wise.. no getting away from that IMO
Not that easy... Maybe used Panel speakers ?
New stuff that would far exceed your expectations.. IF.. the electronics are worthy..
Look here: http://www.audionote.co.uk/products/speakers/spkr_home_01.shtml
OR here : http://www.tannoy.com/residential/#!series_1156
NEITHER is cheap....though. But these also dominate the room Decor wise.. no getting away from that IMO
Thanks. The issue is not "the look", it is the placement. A 12' room disappears rapidly when the speakers need to be several feet out from the front & side walls. I don't expect to find anything that surpasses the Vandies strengths, maybe something equally musical but with different strengths tho.
seminole54
AK Member
Bob
These might be worth a look. Similar sound profile as the Vandies. I owned a pair for about a year in a second system at the same time as the 3A's were in the main system. Easy to drive and good WAF.
http://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649118250-meadowlark_kestrel/
Jack
These might be worth a look. Similar sound profile as the Vandies. I owned a pair for about a year in a second system at the same time as the 3A's were in the main system. Easy to drive and good WAF.
http://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649118250-meadowlark_kestrel/
Jack
cratz2
Addicted Member
Several models of Snell were designed to be used close to the front wall. They might be worth looking into though they didn't put tremendous effort into the aesthetic side of things in my opinion. They are also in the same general sonic ballpark of Vandersteen: fairly balanced, maybe a slightly rolled off top end to minimize fatigue, trading off ultimate resolution and detail for a warm, enveloping vibe. The Snells tend to have a slight mid-bass hump to give the impression of more lower end weight but not in a mid-fi way.
They sound very musical in my opinion. I was pretty good friends with a dealer in the mid to late 90s and heard many of the lineup. I was a big fan of the Type E and Type J though I enjoyed most models that I've heard. The Es and Js are old designs, tweaked by Snell and since the demise of real Snell, they've been picked up by Audio Note in addition to many DIY designs. Es are nearly full range and very dynamic. Js are a bit more limited, but excellent, again, good enough that Audio Note offer significantly updated and upgraded versions.
If funds were not limited at all, I think the Audio Note Es are about close to my ideal reasonable speaker... at least on paper.
They sound very musical in my opinion. I was pretty good friends with a dealer in the mid to late 90s and heard many of the lineup. I was a big fan of the Type E and Type J though I enjoyed most models that I've heard. The Es and Js are old designs, tweaked by Snell and since the demise of real Snell, they've been picked up by Audio Note in addition to many DIY designs. Es are nearly full range and very dynamic. Js are a bit more limited, but excellent, again, good enough that Audio Note offer significantly updated and upgraded versions.
If funds were not limited at all, I think the Audio Note Es are about close to my ideal reasonable speaker... at least on paper.
Appreciate the suggestions & I have started looking into them. We have come to agreement that we will keep the Vandersteens while we trial their replacements. If the Vandies turn out to be the best choice, we'll have to decorate around them & resell the replacements. Thanks again for the feedback. You guys are all ok in my book.
bhunter
The Spherical Cow
I suspect it will be difficult finding anything that will outperform your Vandys. I know I could never go back to a speaker against a wall for anything other than background music or video. Good luck with your search.