Restore Infinity Reference 60, emphasis on crossover

[Fleime]

Hello,

I have a pair of Reference 60's in need of repair. I will not be doing the work myself but bring the speakers to a specialist. Aside from the re-coning that has to be done, I am wondering if the crossovers need work to, having read on the forum that these can degrade as well. Is it possible to determine beforehand if the crossovers need work, by personal visual inspection/showing you pictures and/or doing some measurements? I have a multimeter at my disposal.

I have no experience working with electronics, but am willing to measure stuff if someone can tell me what and how to measure it. And provide pictures of course.

Cheers

 

[Fleime]

No-one? Or is this question somehow inappropriate?

 

[swechsler]

Not inappropriate. These speakers weren't sold in the US so the number of people who can answer accurately, with little info specified, may be limited. Maybe some pictures of the drivers and crossovers would help. it's a safe bet that they could benefit from recapping.

 

[goodolpg]

And do you mean reconing or reFoaming?
Big difference, and spell check often substitutes one for the other.
You may be able to refoam them yourself, for reconing it may be better to let someone with experience do it.

 

[elnaldo]

I remember those crossovers used a few electrolytic capacitors, I've measured them some years ago and they were within specs, but many people will agree that if budget is not an issue, it's a good practice to replace them with film caps in the tweeter and mid-range sections, and use new fresh electrolytics in the woofer section (or film too, but they are usually very large and more expensive with not too evident change in the sound)

 

[Fleime]

Thank you all for your replies.

As some of you know I am not in the best of health at the moment. Therefor my responses can take some time. My interest is however sincere and your answers appreciated. In time I will provide more in depth answers and pictures.

Thanks for your patience.

 

[Fleime]

Back to this slightly dusty thread. I've added some photos of one speaker. Refoaming is clearly needed, I don't know if the voice coils may be damaged if they have been used in this manner, or if I can check this. For any questions / advice on the crossover let me know. I have a multimeter at my disposal. Of course I can also photograph or test the other speaker. If necessary a technical manual can be found here.

 

[swechsler]

I think you'll be OK. There's enough foam surrounding the cones that it should have kept the VC centered. If you want to be certain, lie the speakers on their backs and gently push in on each woofer. You should hear no scraping sound. If you do, it's possibly because the cones are off center. Carefully grab the woofer cone on two sides and see if you can manipulate it in such a way that you don't hear any sound when it's moved up and down. If so, they'll be OK once refoamed, as long as you keep the voice coil properly centered when you do it (you'll need to use a test tone, typically 30hz, while refoaming; cutting the dust caps off these woofers to shim them is a bad idea).

 

[Fleime]

Despite looking that way the foam has disintegrated and the woofer cones are now floating freely. However this has probably happened while in my storage as I do not remember them being that way when purchased. Also I am able to move all woofers in such a matter that there is no friction within the voice-coil, following your advice. The midrange drivers are still suspended and move fine as well. Although I am not afraid of attempting a refoam, I have never done this in my life and do not want to mess this up, therefor I will take them to a specialist. Perhaps later with the reference 50 woofers and you guys to hold my hand or something.

I have looked at the emit-r's and they appear to be ok, despite the fact that the diaphragms feel like plastic candy wrappers when pushed with a soft brush. I do not know if it is possible to dry these out. They both have an impedance of 3.25 ohm's, and as I understand from my other thread, these readings are ok.

 

[Fleime]

Oh, and do I need to check anything in the crossover?

 

[swechsler]

Don't do anything with the EMITs, they should be fine. While it's fine if you want to have a pro refoam these, you run the risk of spending more on labor than the speakers are worth (I'm guessing; I don't know what these are worth nor how much speaker repair costs are in Amsterdam, but that's three drivers to repair). In the US it would probably cost around $300 to have all 6 professionally done.

Regarding the crossovers, @elnaldo mentioned in an earlier post here that it would probably be in your best interest to recap them, especially since you're putting in the money to fix all the drivers.

 

[Fleime]

I have yet to receive an offer, but I am guessing it will cost at least as much, excluding possible work on the crossover. The repair will cost about as much as the speakers in good condition including refoamed drivers, however I have noticed the quality of the refoam jobs can vary.

Although you are correct that the repairs will cost more than the worth of the speakers, is it not also how 'much' speaker I will get once repaired, vs. what kind of speaker I can buy for the same amount as the repairs? Money wise, theoretically, the 1,000 USD they cost in 1991 would be about 1,900 USD today, but I can understand if one can not calculate this so simplistic.

However I do appreciate honest input and if you and/or others think it not worth it, I will reconsider my choices. I based my original choice on the good reviews older Infinity's got on this forum, with IMG cones en EMIT's generally praised. The Reference 50 and 60 got my preference because I wanted to start out simple, with only regular drivers and the emit-r as the exotic part. Also on the fact that Infinity is not as 'available' here as in the USA. Furthermore I did not plan on investing in additional or specialized amplifiers or other technical necessities that come with some higher grade Infinity's.

So, the general question is will I have a good set of speakers if these speakers are restored in original / good working condition. Or should I aim for something else or a better quality of old Infinity's? I would like to end up with speakers that, performance wise, more than justify the costs. I believed that with the IMG cones and the Emit-r's, I would have a decent chance at this with Infinity, with the speakers also being a little special.

Back to the crossovers, does recap mean refitting capacitors? I have little electrical knowledge. If so, which ones are they on the crossover? Are capacitors nowadays better, or do they just degrade over time? Should I measure something?

 

[onwardjames]

Hey Fleime, get a screwdriver, pull those drivers, get a refoam kit, change out those caps, you'd be out a total of 100 bucks, TOPS. It's easy work.

Those speakers aren't bad, and you'd gain so much confidence doing the work yourself. Trust me, if I can, and have, refoamed a set of McIntosh XRT 20's, YOU CAN TOO!!!!

Read all you can, take your time, ask questions, but there's NOTHING tough about this. Good luck.

 

[onwardjames]

I remember those crossovers used a few electrolytic capacitors, I've measured them some years ago and they were within specs, but many people will agree that if budget is not an issue, it's a good practice to replace them with film caps in the tweeter and mid-range sections, and use new fresh electrolytics in the woofer section (or film too, but they are usually very large and more expensive with not too evident change in the sound)

QUOTED FOR TRUTH.

You can literally clip the leads close to the old caps, use that as an anchor to attach new leads, if you're afraid of desoldering and going thru the board.

I'm telling you, man, if a Luddite like me can do it, anyone can.

 

[swechsler]

So, the general question is will I have a good set of speakers if these speakers are restored in original / good working condition. Or should I aim for something else or a better quality of old Infinity's?

No, these are great speakers. I think my (and @onwardjames') objection is that it's probably going to be a lot of money to spend for work that really isn't that difficult, even if you've never done it before; just requires the correct materials, some common tools (like a chisel and an Xacto knife) and a little bit of patience. There are tons of web pages and videos around that show exactly what's involved.

Also, as @goodolpg earlier in this thread, these speakers need refoaming, not reconing. There's a huge difference there.

 

[onwardjames]

No, these are great speakers. I think my (and @onwardjames') objection is that it's probably going to be a lot of money to spend for work that really isn't that difficult, even if you've never done it before; just requires the correct materials, some common tools (like a chisel and an Xacto knife) and a little bit of patience. There are tons of web pages and videos around that show exactly what's involved.

Also, as @goodolpg earlier in this thread, these speakers need refoaming, not reconing. There's a huge difference there.

Yep. Exactly what swechsler said.

Hey man, if your people can hold back the Atlantic ocean (or whatever body of water threatens Amsterdam) you can do this. I PROMISE.

 

[Pahkasika]

Fleime did you fix your references? Mine are same situation and i wonder can i do it if there are anymore available these refoam kits

 

[Fleime]

Fleime did you fix your references? Mine are same situation and i wonder can i do it if there are anymore available these refoam kits

No I didn't due to personal circumstances, though they are still lying around and the intention is still there. All I can tell you is that there are differences in quality in foam surrounds. Perhaps someone else here can advise you on a brand or dealer. If no one replies in this old thread then start a new one. As for the refoaming itself, there are probably enough tips to go around on the forum or the internet. Good luck.

 

[Bodhi1]

No I didn't due to personal circumstances, though they are still lying around and the intention is still there. All I can tell you is that there are differences in quality in foam surrounds. Perhaps someone else here can advise you on a brand or dealer. If no one replies in this old thread then start a new one. As for the refoaming itself, there are probably enough tips to go around on the forum or the internet. Good luck.

Expert Infinity woofer repairers, Watkins Audio state on their website "We also use polyether foam which lasts much longer than other types of foam, along with Airflex adhesive. It remains flexible, the same as that used for original construction."

Personally knowing how professional Watkins Audio are, I wouldn't attempt to carry out Infinity speaker repairs/upgrades myself & would send the drivers to them. They may also be able to upgrade your x-overs, however that wasn't one of the services mentioned on their website.