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Reusing old cartridges versus Audio-Technica AT-VM95E

T

Texas Tom

Active Member
Hi everyone, I have over the last couple of years ended up with a bunch of older cartridges. Typically when I flip a turntable I install an Audio-Technica AT-VM95E or similar cart. These cost about $50 each.

Now I have the following cartridges:
Audio Technica AT910, Signet TK-5Ea, Acutex M307IIE, Shure M97, Shure M91ED, Ortofon VMS 20 E, PickeringXV-15, Acutex LPM

So I have a couple of questions:

  1. Are any of these worth using instead of the AT-VM95E on flippers? I know I can find some stylus replacements that are $30 - $70, but will there be a significant benefit? Example of some of the turntables: JVC JL40, JVC QL-A5, Technics SL-23, Dual CS 1264, Sansui FR-1080, Kenwood KD-4100r, Yamaha P-850 and Marantz 6150.
  2. Are any worth using instead of a new higher end cartridge for my personal turntables? budget: Up to $200
My current personal turntables are:
  1. Technics SL-1400 MK2 - currently no cart
  2. Pioneer PL-560 - AT-VM95E
  3. Pioneer PL-600 - Original pioneer
  4. Debut Carbon Esprit SB - Ortofon 2M Red - This is brand new, so probably leave as is for now.
Thank you in advance,

Tom
 
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If I were selling turntables I would equip with AT3600 cartridges, knowing that end users are going to get a competent cartridge that costs very little but might want to find their own cartridge thereafter.

For personal use, the Signet, Shures, Ortofon and Pickering are all carts I've owned and believe to be very, very good. However, stylus availability can be an issue for these older cartridges, so you have to be content buying JICO or EVG or LPGear/LPTunes or whatever you can locate for them. Grado Prestige2 carts have been very well received and you can get the Red2 for under $200, the silver running just over $200. Come to think of it, as a lover of Shure and Grado, if I had $200 burning a hole in my pocket I'd probably buy a new Grado Red2 and run with that for a while. There are some machines that hum with Grado carts though, so that's a final consideration.
 
DavidTT said:
If I were selling turntables I would equip with AT3600 cartridges, knowing that end users are going to get a competent cartridge that costs very little but might want to find their own cartridge thereafter.

For personal use, the Signet, Shures, Ortofon and Pickering are all carts I've owned and believe to be very, very good. However, stylus availability can be an issue for these older cartridges, so you have to be content buying JICO or EVG or LPGear/LPTunes or whatever you can locate for them. Grado Prestige2 carts have been very well received and you can get the Red2 for under $200, the silver running just over $200. Come to think of it, as a lover of Shure and Grado, if I had $200 burning a hole in my pocket I'd probably buy a new Grado Red2 and run with that for a while. There are some machines that hum with Grado carts though, so that's a final consideration.
Click to expand...
Thank you David!
 
+1 on the AT3600. Sometimes these can be had for as low as $9.99 with a headshell, and they sound quite nice. There is even an upgrade path for the end user.

Do your vintage cartridges have good original styli? Makes all the difference... As DavidTT mentioned, some of those are pretty decent cartridges. Which Shure 97 is that, by the way? A M97ED is good. A M97HE is extremely good. M97xE, decent but a little "meh" when compared to the previous two. The M91ED can be great too, if it has a good original US made nude elliptical. If not, the good news is that Jico makes good aftermarket styli for all of them. You can get one, try it, and flip it if you are not thrilled by it. Probably still cheaper than a new VM95E. There are also aftermarket upgrades available from Jico, like the HE and SAS. Why be worth a shot before you dump the Shures.

I'd check on that Signet, too. Those were decent carts. Some of these you might like far better than the VM95E or Ort Red.
 
Texas Tom said:
Hi everyone, I have over the last couple of years ended up with a bunch of older cartridges. Typically when I flip a turntable I install an Audio-Technica AT-VM95E or similar cart. These cost about $50 each.

Now I have the following cartridges:
Audio Technica AT910, Signet TK-5Ea, Acutex M307IIE, Shure M97, Shure M91ED, Ortofon VMS 20 E, PickeringXV-15, Acutex LPM

So I have a couple of questions:

  1. Are any of these worth using instead of the AT-VM95E on flippers? I know I can find some stylus replacements that are $30 - $70, but will there be a significant benefit? Example of some of the turntables: JVC JL40, JVC QL-A5, Technics SL-23, Dual CS 1264, Sansui FR-1080, Kenwood KD-4100r, Yamaha P-850 and Marantz 6150.
  2. Are any worth using instead of a new higher end cartridge for my personal turntables? budget: Up to $200
My current personal turntables are:
  1. Technics SL-1400 MK2 - currently no cart
  2. Pioneer PL-560 - AT-VM95E
  3. Pioneer PL-600 - Original pioneer
  4. Debut Carbon Esprit SB - Ortofon 2M Red - This is brand new, so probably leave as is for now.
Thank you in advance,

Tom
Click to expand...

You should be able to re place the stylus of the Shure M97 and Shure M91 cartridge witha a very good performing and cost effective stylus.

Shure M91 with HE - Hyper elliptical
https://lptunes.com/products/hyperelliptical-replacement-for-shure-n-91ed-n91ed-stylus

Shure M97 with VividLine (similar to HE)
https://www.lpgear.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=LG&Product_Code=SHN097HEL

For a new cartridge, look into the Vessel A3SE cartridge with the Super elliptical stylus (similar to HE)
https://www.lpgear.com/product/THEVESSELA3SE.html

Enjoy! :music:
 
Multiplex said:
+1 on the AT3600. Sometimes these can be had for as low as $9.99 with a headshell, and they sound quite nice. There is even an upgrade path for the end user.

Do your vintage cartridges have good original styli? Makes all the difference... As DavidTT mentioned, some of those are pretty decent cartridges. Which Shure 97 is that, by the way? A M97ED is good. A M97HE is extremely good. M97xE, decent but a little "meh" when compared to the previous two. The M91ED can be great too, if it has a good original US made nude elliptical. If not, the good news is that Jico makes good aftermarket styli for all of them. You can get one, try it, and flip it if you are not thrilled by it. Probably still cheaper than a new VM95E. There are also aftermarket upgrades available from Jico, like the HE and SAS. Why be worth a shot before you dump the Shures.

I'd check on that Signet, too. Those were decent carts. Some of these you might like far better than the VM95E or Ort Red.
Click to expand...
 
parman said:
is a Shure M97 the same as a M97 x ?
Click to expand...

No, it is the original version Shure M97 HE, better than the later version to some users.

Two different cartridges. :)
images
 
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All of the carts need a new stylus.
For the AT910 I found an identical replacement for$32.

The Shure carts had a number of replacements that range from $50 to $300. The M97 had a N97 HE. The M91ED has a baby blue Shure stylus with no additional identification.

I also have a Shure V15 Type RS. It was never used, but the stylus immediately collapsed when mounted.
 
Balifly said:
You should be able to re place the stylus of the Shure M97 and Shure M91 cartridge witha a very good performing and cost effective stylus.

Shure M91 with HE - Hyper elliptical
https://lptunes.com/products/hyperelliptical-replacement-for-shure-n-91ed-n91ed-stylus

Shure M97 with VividLine (similar to HE)
https://www.lpgear.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=LG&Product_Code=SHN097HEL

For a new cartridge, look into the Vessel A3SE cartridge with the Super elliptical stylus (similar to HE)
https://www.lpgear.com/product/THEVESSELA3SE.html

Enjoy! :music:
Click to expand...



Thank you Balifly!
 
The problem with putting a very nice vintage cart on your vintage tables for flip, is not every buyer will know what they are getting, or appreciate it, or value the price increase. You could be throwing your pearls to “swine”. Also, you be taking a bath by adding that valuable cart in the deal, when a buyer only values the table. Additionally, that valuable vintage cart may not suit the tastes of a seasoned buyer.

You’re wise to throw a current model daily driver cartridge in the deal.
 
Wolfie62 said:
The problem with putting a very nice vintage cart on your vintage tables for flip, is not every buyer will know what they are getting, or appreciate it, or value the price increase. You could be throwing your pearls to “swine”. Also, you be taking a bath by adding that valuable cart in the deal, when a buyer only values the table. Additionally, that valuable vintage cart may not suit the tastes of a seasoned buyer.

You’re wise to throw a current model daily driver cartridge in the deal.
Click to expand...


Thank you Wolfie62. Do you think the Audio-Technica AT-VM95E is too much to offer on these vintage tables? My goal is to sell these for enough to keep my hobby going, make someone happy with their purchase and possibly gain a new friend.

Currently I have a Technics SL-Q300 for sale and have posted a price with and without the cartridge. Obviously not the one mentioned above, but a new decent p-mount cartridge.

On a Technics SL-BD22 I just replaced the stylus on the existing cartridge for $12 and the belt and just listed with one price.
 
DavidTT said:
If I were selling turntables I would equip with AT3600 cartridges, knowing that end users are going to get a competent cartridge that costs very little but might want to find their own cartridge thereafter.

For personal use, the Signet, Shures, Ortofon and Pickering are all carts I've owned and believe to be very, very good. However, stylus availability can be an issue for these older cartridges, so you have to be content buying JICO or EVG or LPGear/LPTunes or whatever you can locate for them. Grado Prestige2 carts have been very well received and you can get the Red2 for under $200, the silver running just over $200. Come to think of it, as a lover of Shure and Grado, if I had $200 burning a hole in my pocket I'd probably buy a new Grado Red2 and run with that for a while. There are some machines that hum with Grado carts though, so that's a final consideration.
Click to expand...
My Grado blue 2 which is one below the red is identical apart from slightly more damping on the cantilever to the gold 2 so I would not pay extra for a red.
Chris
 
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I think the suggestion to put the AT3600L on your refurbished turntables is a good one, as it is a great starter cartridge with a good deal of charm and will provide the buyer with plenty of enjoyment. Perhaps the AT-VM95E (of VM95C) is a better choice for more up-market turntables, to give the buyer an easy upgrade path through AT's various styli for this model. As low/medium compliance cartridges, I wouldn't put either of these models on a low-mass arm though - here, an Ortofon OM10 or a Grado Prestige would be more suitable.

I don't think anybody has mentioned your Ortofon VMS20E. This (at least the MkII) was a very successful cartridge and well-liked by many. I agree it is a pleasant listen but I don't find it a very exciting cartridge. A few NOS original styli may still be available but they are expensive. A Jico replacement stylus may be the best way to go if you want to resurrect this cartridge.
 
I use a Signet TK5ea as one of my main carts and I love it. I've found it to be smoother than many of the newer AT offerings. At the moment I'm running a NOS 125LC stylus though you can fit many of the new AT tips which gives you a large range of shapes to try.
I'd also recommend going with the 3600 for flips. It's a great sounding cart, even for a much higher price than you can get it for, plus it keeps your cost way down on what you're selling.
 
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