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REVIEW: Schiit Modi DAC $99

oscar09 said:
Hello Withmusic, let me educate you a little on USB cables since you seem to missing out on information. When it comes to choosing a DAC a USB cable is just not a USB cable. The difference in quality matters here a lot. Since the USB cable is the one sending all those 1s and 0s to the DAC, that the DAC then beautifully turns 0s and 1s into... MUSIC! Also, USB ports tend to be noisy, this is where a better cable comes in, to eliminate all that noise and send clean signal to the DAC. A better cable will provide better detail and better soundstage and over all better performance so it does benefit to get a nicer one. A buddy of mine let me borrow his Mapleshade USB cable and it made a whole difference than my Audioquest Forest USB cable, the mapleshade is $140 and the Audioquest is $29. Now if you want an even more technical explanation on USB cables for DACs, head over to Computer Audiophile and post the same comment you did, just wait to see what them folks over there will tell you.
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Are you suggesting a $150 cable for a $99 DAC?
 
tppc said:
Are you suggesting a $150 cable for a $99 DAC?
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Not at all, all i stated is the difference i heard.For anyone getting the Modi DAC i recommend the Audioquest Forest USB, but if you have the money, get a better one.

As for me, i will order and get a $150 cable for my $99 DAC, simply because i will be upgrading my DAC to a better one this summer. I got this Modi DAC just to experiment and hear something new. Surprisingly it blew my HRT MSII out of here so i am even more happy i got it.
 
oscar09 said:
Hello Withmusic, let me educate you a little on USB cables since you seem to missing out on information. When it comes to choosing a DAC a USB cable is just not a USB cable. The difference in quality matters here a lot. Since the USB cable is the one sending all those 1s and 0s to the DAC, that the DAC then beautifully turns 0s and 1s into... MUSIC! Also, USB ports tend to be noisy, this is where a better cable comes in, to eliminate all that noise and send clean signal to the DAC. A better cable will provide better detail and better soundstage and over all better performance so it does benefit to get a nicer one. A buddy of mine let me borrow his Mapleshade USB cable and it made a whole difference than my Audioquest Forest USB cable, the mapleshade is $140 and the Audioquest is $29. Now if you want an even more technical explanation on USB cables for DACs, head over to Computer Audiophile and post the same comment you did, just wait to see what them folks over there will tell you.
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Here's an article that reaches a more middle of the road conclusion: http://www.howtogeek.com/112636/htg-explains-do-you-really-need-expensive-cables/

Bottom line:

  1. Higher-end cables are more beneficial for analog, less so for digital.
  2. Better quality cables that are sending a digital signal are generally better than cheap ones, especially if the cable run is long.

My subjective view:

  1. The point of diminishing returns for shelling out $$ for cables is reached much sooner for digital cables (Toslink, USB, HDMI) than for analog cables (speaker).
  2. I have a visceral objection to buying $50 cables for a $99 DAC.
 
C6Bill said:
And here goes another informative thread right down the shitter, have at it cable trolls I'm done with this thread.
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I'm not a'trollin about cables, but the suggestion of expensive ones in light of reported results gave me big pause. I didn't want this to turn into a cable debate. I just wanted to get clarity as it seemed a bit odd to me. It just seemed to me that the DAC should work the way it should by design right out of the box with no need for improvement as it only does one thing and from what I have read I understood that it does that thing very very well. What I did not know was that one needed expensive USB cables to get it to perform at it's best. I'm taking all that with a big grain of salt now and still intersted in the DAC and will use my own trusted inexpensive everyday USB cable should I pull the trigger on one.
At this point I agree, back to the DAC.
 
withmusic said:
I'm not a'trollin about cables, but the suggestion of expensive ones in light of reported results gave me big pause. I didn't want this to turn into a cable debate. I just wanted to get clarity as it seemed a bit odd to me. It just seemed to me that the DAC should work the way it should by design right out of the box with no need for improvement as it only does one thing and from what I have read I understood that it does that thing very very well. What I did not know was that one needed expensive USB cables to get it to perform at it's best. I'm taking all that with a big grain of salt now and still intersted in the DAC and will use my own trusted inexpensive everyday USB cable should I pull the trigger on one.
At this point I agree, back to the DAC.
Click to expand...

Read the reply i made to your original comment.
 
oscar09 said:
Hello Withmusic, let me educate you a little on USB cables since you seem to missing out on information. When it comes to choosing a DAC a USB cable is just not a USB cable. The difference in quality matters here a lot. Since the USB cable is the one sending all those 1s and 0s to the DAC, that the DAC then beautifully turns 0s and 1s into... MUSIC! Also, USB ports tend to be noisy, this is where a better cable comes in, to eliminate all that noise and send clean signal to the DAC. A better cable will provide better detail and better soundstage and over all better performance so it does benefit to get a nicer one. A buddy of mine let me borrow his Mapleshade USB cable and it made a whole difference than my Audioquest Forest USB cable, the mapleshade is $140 and the Audioquest is $29. Now if you want an even more technical explanation on USB cables for DACs, head over to Computer Audiophile and post the same comment you did, just wait to see what them folks over there will tell you.
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Thank you. Interesting as I was not aware that USB ports are noisy. I know sound cards are noisy, no matter how much one spends on them. This is due to all the other things going on in the PC, so with that in mind I suppose it is possible that the USB ports would be noisy since they are essentially a connection to the said....uh, noise from in the PC. I guess it doesn't matter with non-audio devices so much.
That said though, I think it would be more prudent to try it with the everyday USB cable and see how it sounds first. This is what plan to do if I get one of these. However, I rarely to never use my PC as a source for music. That said, though I am interested in using my Nexus 7 as a source once in a blue moon provided the USB port on it works in that way. I'm also thinking that I do use the PC for you tube and the like and I am wondering if the sound could be improved for that with the DAC?
 
withmusic said:
Thank you. Interesting as I was not aware that USB ports are noisy. I know sound cards are noisy, no matter how much one spends on them. This is due to all the other things going on in the PC, so with that in mind I suppose it is possible that the USB ports would be noisy since they are essentially a connection to the said....uh, noise from in the PC. I guess it doesn't matter with non-audio devices so much.
That said though, I think it would be more prudent to try it with the everyday USB cable and see how it sounds first. This is what plan to do if I get one of these. However, I rarely to never use my PC as a source for music. That said, though I am interested in using my Nexus 7 as a source once in a blue moon provided the USB port on it works in that way. I'm also thinking that I do use the PC for you tube and the like and I am wondering if the sound could be improved for that with the DAC?
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Yes USB ports are noisy, thats where getting a better USB cable benefits, to send a cleaner signal. There are $3,000 USB cables, are they better than a $50 dollar one? i dont know, but i sure wouldnt spend more than $140 on a USB cable... unless i won the lottery! :banana: You can try any USB cable, even a printer one. IT would be nice to do an A n B comparison to see how a regular one compares to an audio dedicated one.

As for using your DAC with another thing other than a pc it is possible. I dont use android devices but im sure it is also possible to do it with them. For instance, with an ipad, i can connect the camera connection kit that sends out 16bit/44.1kHz and bypasses the internal DAC, then plug it into a powered USB HUB and then to a DAC and BAM you got music. Im sure you can do it with your nexus 7, just make sure you can bypass the internal DAC and send out the digital signal to the DAC.
 
I've opened up usb cables for moding purposes(cheap ones).

It's basically 4-5(depending on intended use) tiny gauge wires with some shielding materials wrapped around inside the tube wrap.

It would be fairly easy to make your own "super usb" cable using 4 bigger wires(Regular speaker wires would work I think) to each USB head and wrapped in better shielding material/heatsink wire.

I'm not sure about the head....perhaps the expensive cables use better heads....but even that's fairly simple.
 
ryuker16 said:
I've opened up usb cables for moding purposes(cheap ones).

It's basically 4-5(depending on intended use) tiny gauge wires with some shielding materials wrapped around inside the tube wrap.

It would be fairly easy to make your own "super usb" cable using 4 bigger wires(Regular speaker wires would work I think) to each USB head and wrapped in better shielding material/heatsink wire.

I'm not sure about the head....perhaps the expensive cables use better heads....but even that's fairly simple.
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Exactly. I've read that sometimes the cables are so close together that they interfere and create unnecessary noise. Look how this Mapleshade USB cable is constructed, every cable is set apart and shielded on its own.
CL-USB_EX1.jpg
 
wow....maple leaf is making a killing off those cable.

20+ AWG wire soldered to 8 pins in a sheath.

I'll make my own and add some tin foil/tubing around the cable when I get a new DAC.

Would a "super" USB head make a difference?
 
oh come on guys, the OP did a real nice review of a quality product that a lot of AKer's may have an interest in, can we PLEASE not derail this thread with another cable debate.

so Oscar, I was thinking of going the same route, test the waters with the Modi and upgrade to the bifrost later but after reading all the great reviews of Schiit I think I may just jump in to the deep end. what is the difference between the bifrost and the gungnir. I will only be using this via usb from the laptop so I dont think I would need the extra inputs, however maybe I do need them and just dont know it yet. thanks for help.
 
tppc said:
All USB ports are noisy?

Can you provide anything to substantiate that claim?
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You probably wont hear it unless you stop the music and turn the volume up and you'll hear it. I heard it more on the Modi than on the HRT, but it sure was there.

Also, i dont need to show you anything to backup my claim, do yourself a favor and look it up yourself if you dont believe me. I dont have the time to be trying to get my point across to other people. Have fun!
 
jeremyjustic said:
oh come on guys, the OP did a real nice review of a quality product that a lot of AKer's may have an interest in, can we PLEASE not derail this thread with another cable debate.

so Oscar, I was thinking of going the same route, test the waters with the Modi and upgrade to the bifrost later but after reading all the great reviews of Schiit I think I may just jump in to the deep end. what is the difference between the bifrost and the gungnir. I will only be using this via usb from the laptop so I dont think I would need the extra inputs, however maybe I do need them and just dont know it yet. thanks for help.
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Hey there Jeremy! Personally if i was you and you have the budget, shoot for a higher end model like the Gungnir. There are a lot of people on other audio related forums, that i am part of, that say the Gungnir beat their much more expensive DACs in the $1,000 range. I cant really tell you the difference between both the Bifrost and the Gungnir since i dont own them, but if you go over to Schiit's page, on their FAQ for the Gungnir i believe you can find the differences in both.
 
jeremyjustic said:
oh come on guys, the OP did a real nice review of a quality product that a lot of AKer's may have an interest in, can we PLEASE not derail this thread with another cable debate.

so Oscar, I was thinking of going the same route, test the waters with the Modi and upgrade to the bifrost later but after reading all the great reviews of Schiit I think I may just jump in to the deep end. what is the difference between the bifrost and the gungnir. I will only be using this via usb from the laptop so I dont think I would need the extra inputs, however maybe I do need them and just dont know it yet. thanks for help.
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Gungnir has Adapticlock as well as balanced outputs (and 2 RCA outputs). Also a BNC input that Bifrost doesn't have. I love my Gungnir!
 
mackat said:
Gungnir has Adapticlock as well as balanced outputs (and 2 RCA outputs). Also a BNC input that Gungnir doesn't have. I love my Gungnir!
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thanks for chiming in Ben , I searched for your thread on schiit but I can never seem to find anything via the AK search. whats Adapticlock?
 
Hi Jeremy!

You're welcome! I hope you're still enjoying the clamp if you have it! I can't find it either now, I'm not at home right now. Schiit's page on Gungnir explains it better than I ever could!
 
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