Rogue audio bi-amp?

[phastrone]

I've been using a Cronus Magnum II integrated to power a pair of Usher Tiny Dancers, but now I've upgraded to a pair of 4 ohm Aerial Acoustics 10 T floor standers which, by reputation, can really come alive with extra power. They sound wonderful with the 100 wpc supplied by the Rogue Cronus II, but I can't help wonder how they would sound paired with a Rogue Atlas Magnum powering the low end. Has anyone tried this bi-amp pair with a pair of power hungry speakers? (I thought of trying to match with a solid state amp for the lower end, but I'd like to avoid impedance and/or gain matching complications.)
Thanks...Jay

 

[prisoners]

I don’t know the answer, but nice amp you have there!

 

[Duane]

I've owned Aerial Acoustics for quite some time now. They require some power and don't come alive with anything under 100w. I've been using 200w/ch multi channel amps and they will sound incredible once they go above 100w. My front speakers are Model 6's. Not familiar with the 10 Bs.

 

[Bob]

it should be more than the sum of the parts. I've been biamping for the last couple decades.

if you use a small speaker full range then as the treble upper it will sound better - it no longer
has to do bass which is a compromise to get numbers lower.

if you use a big speaker full range, then using it as the bottom woofer bass through a crossover
then it no longer has to do treble work. less effect here than for tweeters but it does exist.

do not disable the crossovers inside the speakers - they are not necessarily splitting the frequencies
to the various drivers - the better ones tailor the speaker to better SQ and flat response by using
filters to correct any issues with the driver within the cabinet constraints.

also depends on the music you listen to, if its rock then the full range floor standers should be the
standard and any changes should exceed its capabilities. if its classical, tune for the smaller speaker
and use the larger one as a "fuller" range subwoofer.

 

[KB007]

I presume you mean 10 Ts? Those 10 Ts are very nice speakers. They would certainly benefit from some grunty power for the woofers. If you plan on doing passive bi-amping, you could try to look for something like a Bryston "pro" amp (4BSST pro as an example) that has a gain control to match the gain for the hi freq amp. I had some 8Bs for a few years, they were very nice, only issue was the side firing woofer and my turntable at very high volumes... Traded them in to buy my Mezzo Utopias

 

[phastrone]

I presume you mean 10 Ts? Those 10 Ts are very nice speakers. They would certainly benefit from some grunty power for the woofers. If you plan on doing passive bi-amping, you could try to look for something like a Bryston "pro" amp (4BSST pro as an example) that has a gain control to match the gain for the hi freq amp. I had some 8Bs for a few years, they were very nice, only issue was the side firing woofer and my turntable at very high volumes... Traded them in to buy my Mezzo Utopias

Yes...10 ts What you say makes sense...Rogue said that the best path would be to match the (29db) gain as closely as possible, but an amp with adjustable gain should be workable...

 

[avanti1960]

3-way speakers with low woofer to midrange crossover frequency are prime candidates to benefit from bi-amping and your speakers are right there. a big power hungry woofer crossing over to the midrange at 360 Hz.
This crossover frequency is low enough that you could get away with changing amp topologies and use a beefy solid state amp to drive the woofer fed by the subwoofer out from the CMII. You would definitely want to have gain adjust on the new power amp so you could level match to the mid/tweeter either by ear or with measurement tools.
Adding in the Atlas to drive the woofers would eliminate the level matching issue and would also provide a boost in dynamics and SPL.
I have successfully bi-amped 3-way speakers in the past and the upgrade is huge and completely worthwhile. jump out dynamics, clarity and freedom from strain as well as higher maximum SPL are all worth the effort.
I have a nice system centered around the CMII with british box monitors and often miss the old system with two solid state amps driving 3-way dual woofer tower speakers vertically bi-amped.
Each amp had the same gain (midrange amp was an 80 WPC NAD amp, woofer amp was a 150 WPC NAD) and it sounded amazing! deep extended impactful bass even at really low volume. There is no substitute for power.

 

[SimplySound]

I drive my Dunlavy SC-IV's with a Rogue Stereo 90 (KT120 Tubes) for the Mid/Highs and a McCormack DNA 0.5 Deluxe (100W/30db gain) for the Bass. I run the Rogue in Triode so it's probable 45-50W. Everything is smooth as silk with some serious bass response. You won't be disappointed using a SS amp for the Bass taps. Trust me on that!

And congrats on the 10T's... those are some serious speakers!!!

 

[bajaed]

Still figuring out how to do this. How would a Crown XLI 800 work for this connected to the variable output of the Rogue Cronus Magnum? Voltage gain is 29db on the Crown and its 300 watts at 4 ohm and 200 watts at 8 ohm.

I have my servo sub connected to the variable outs now, how would it work if I connected it to the fixed output of the Rogue? The sub has an Art of Sound amp with low level unbalanced and balanced inputs, hi level and low level gain knobs, frequency and gain knobs.

 

[whoaru99]

Connecting the sub to the fixed output will produce sound...as long as you don't mind the level of subwoofer not following your volume, or having to readjust the sub level every time you change the volume. For those reasons most people don't use fixed level output for sub.

 

[bajaed]

Thanks, that's what I thought. Would running the variable out to a splitter then out to the lower posts on the speakers and to the sub work? Would a good splitter result in a degraded sound considering it's for low frequency?

 

[bajaed]

Bump.
As above, I'm going to try bi-amping my passive Legacy Calibres (incredible speakers btw). Right now I have a Rouge Cronus Magnum connected to the upper binding posts and the jumpers connected to the lower posts. My plan is to get a used Crown XLI or XLS and connect it to the lower taps, after removing the jumpers, to power the bass and leave the mids and highs to the Rogue. I need to find out from Legacy if the lower taps automatically filter out the mids and highs through the crossover or if I need to do it through the amp(does that make sense?).

A Crown tech told me the XLS has an adjustable crossover but the XLI does not. If the speaker does it I can go with the cheaper XLI. Am I off base on any of this and do any of you have any other advice regarding this?

 

[whoaru99]

If all you do is remove external jumpers between two sets of terminals on the speaker then the internal crossover remains. All that's being done is remove a common feed to the crossover low pass and high pass sections.

 

[bajaed]

Thanks. So if the crossover in the 3 way speakers is at 200 and 2.5k, the lower taps will process below 200 from the Crown?

 

[avanti1960]

Bump.
As above, I'm going to try bi-amping my passive Legacy Calibres (incredible speakers btw). Right now I have a Rouge Cronus Magnum connected to the upper binding posts and the jumpers connected to the lower posts. My plan is to get a used Crown XLI or XLS and connect it to the lower taps, after removing the jumpers, to power the bass and leave the mids and highs to the Rogue. I need to find out from Legacy if the lower taps automatically filter out the mids and highs through the crossover or if I need to do it through the amp(does that make sense?).

A Crown tech told me the XLS has an adjustable crossover but the XLI does not. If the speaker does it I can go with the cheaper XLI. Am I off base on any of this and do any of you have any other advice regarding this?

I was looking at the Calibres and they are an amazing speaker- almost bought them. I e-mailed Legacy that the lower posts go to the woofer only so bi-amping should sound awesome.
You might want to get some test files or a CD and an RTA app so you can measure and level match the woofer to the midrange just to get it in the ball park, then adjust slightly by ear.

 

[whoaru99]

Thanks. So if the crossover in the 3 way speakers is at 200 and 2.5k, the lower taps will process below 200 from the Crown?

Yes, but my opinion still is that using crossover prior to amps set about an octave above LP and below HP is better than using only the speaker crossover.

Point being, why force the amps to deal with full range signal when you really wish not to use the full range signal.

 

[bajaed]

Thanks guys.

Avanti, any recommendations for test cds and rta apps? I have an android.