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Romex Power Cords

sebrof

sebrof

Super Member
Partly because of the other power cord thread, and partly because I just like to mess around with my system, I made 2 DIY power cords out of 12G Romex. One of the cables I twisted with the 3 wires (ground is bare) The other I just left in the casing. Plug ends are ones I got a long time ago.
My system is based on the Keep It Simple Stupid concept: TT/phono pre or CDP into DIY single ended triode integrated amp into crossoverless full range driver speakers.

First thing I did was get stock cords and plug in and listen to a few songs.
Then I plugged the "in tact" cord into my CDP and the twisted cable into my integrated amp, both into wall sockets. I didn't hear a difference, but I didn't give it much of a chance (no patience on my part) and I don't really know what parts of the presentation might be affected by these cords so it might take a while to detect.

Questions for those who have experienced changes/improvements with PCs:
Thoughts on Romex? My thought was that since it's in the walls it would be closer to no power cord (see KISS concept above).
Anyone have and like (or not like I suppose) solid core copper PC similar to Romex?
When PCs did have an affect on the music, what changes did you notice?

Thanks in advance
 
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Without trying to cause some bleed-over from the other thread, now closed, one of the strikes against Romex is lack of flex.

An observation on cable in general: the connectors are often more important than the wire itself.
 
Old_School said:
Without trying to cause some bleed-over from the other thread, now closed, one of the strikes against Romex is lack of flex.

An observation on cable in general: the connectors are often more important than the wire itself.
Click to expand...

Thanks, I'm aware of the lack of flex.
I got cheap connectors, but they are tight in the wall sockets. Maybe after I see what these can offer I'll swap ends and see if there are changes dut to that.
 
I'm not an electrician, but I get the feeling that running Romex outside a wall, or without protection, would be a no-no. Maybe an electrician who has more experience with electrical codes could chime in.
 
KrisM said:
I'm not an electrician, but I get the feeling that running Romex outside a wall, or without protection, would be a no-no. Maybe an electrician who has more experience with electrical codes could chime in.
Click to expand...

Yeah, it might not pass code. I don't have any small kids and I'm the only one who touches my gear so I'm not worried about that. It's in a dedicated listening room also, so no traffic, nobody moving furniture, etc.
Thanks though.
 
Romex is NOT suitable for use as a power cord, where it is subject to frequent flexing. This poses a fire risk. When installed in-wall, the Romex is stationary, and poses no such risk. Why even flirt with danger when there are enough inexpensive alternative cables that are listed for power cord use ?
 
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I could see the inflexibility of Romes working to our favor; you'd be able to bend it up out of the way of signal cables.

:scratch2:
 
Glen B said:
Romex is NOT suitable for use as a power cord, where it is subject to frequent flexing. This poses a fire risk. When installed in-wall, the Romex is stationary, and poses no such risk.
Click to expand...

It's not subject to frequent flexing in this application. Thanks.
Like I said in my previous post, thanks for your concern fellas, I got the safety thing covered on my end.

Glen B said:
Why even flirt with danger when there are enough inexpensive alternative cables that are listed for power cord use ?
Click to expand...

'cause I wanna, that's why.

Anyone have any input on my questions?
Anyone have any ideas about my theory that Romex, since it's used in the walls, is like having no power cord at all?

Thanks in advance.
 
sebrof said:
Anyone have any input on my questions?
Anyone have any ideas about my theory that Romex, since it's used in the walls, is like having no power cord at all?
Click to expand...

I would but I've never tried it and I don't want to burden TOL with high school physics.

I always thought if you wanted to avoid the issues brought up in the Shunyata test (http://www.shunyata.com/Content/DTCD-whitepaper.html) then you should just run your dedicated Romex long enough to stick out of the wall and attach an IEC receptacle to the end of it. No power cord, no power cord line drop.
 
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I get where you are coming from on the safety issue, with no kids, etc. But another thought is this; what happens if you do have an electrical issue(due to the romex, or something else) and there is a fire? Do you really want to try to and explain it to an insurance company?
As for the original question, I have a hard time believing a couple of feet of proper power cord or a couple of romex would be any different.
I'm not saying any of this to try and argue, for the record. I'm just a believer in safety codes.
 
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Scuzzer said:
I would but I've never tried it and I don't want to burden TOL with high school physics.

I always thought if you wanted to avoid the issues brought up in the Shunyata test (http://www.shunyata.com/Content/DTCD-whitepaper.html) then you should just run your dedicated Romex long enough to stick out of the wall and attach an IEC receptacle to the end of it. No power cord, no power cord line drop.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the Shunyata link Scuzzer. Interesting stuff.
The Romex hardwired to my components isn't really feasible, but that would be the way to get rid of any issues with PCs for sure.
 
sebrof said:
Anyone have any input on my questions?
Anyone have any ideas about my theory that Romex, since it's used in the walls, is like having no power cord at all?
Click to expand...

It will not be like having no power cord at all. Why? Because it'll still be a power cord, and not a very practical one to boot. However, since you are willing to try, give it a shot and let us know how it turns out. I still maintain that regardless of the wire chosen, if you use crappy connectors (tight or not) they will have a greater impact (or not, if you don't think power cords matter) than the type of wire.

If I were DIYing power cords, I'd use heavy duty extension cords from Home Depot and apply good quality copper (not brass - gold plated or not) connections at either end.
 
Old_School said:
It will not be like having no power cord at all. Why? Because it'll still be a power cord, and not a very practical one to boot. However, since you are willing to try, give it a shot and let us know how it turns out. I still maintain that regardless of the wire chosen, if you use crappy connectors (tight or not) they will have a greater impact (or not, if you don't think power cords matter) than the type of wire.

If I were DIYing power cords, I'd use heavy duty extension cords from Home Depot and apply good quality copper (not brass - gold plated or not) connections at either end.
Click to expand...

Thanks Old School.
Any recommendations on connectors? If what you say is true then I'm pi$$ing into the wind with my cheap connectors.
Another thought I had was to use a clothes dryer cord, 220v here in the US not sure of the amperage for the wire. But I bought one a few years ago and IIRC it was $65. Cheap but not 'almost free' like other wire.
 
Romex is out for any type of a utility PC, for obvious reasons, not that it lends itself to anything much that's beneficial in any event, due to the small gauge solid conductors. Clothes dryer cord is normally 10 gauge as mentioned by "...99", rated at 30 amps although it's not really like Romex, since the dryer cord is not only flexible, but stranded copper and a better conductor.

Yes, I know that stranded is what tends to make it flexible, but that isn't the point I'm attempting to convey here; this is: The actual gauge is smaller (smaller gauge number = larger conductor) only due to being stranded; so it has a much larger conductivity area than solid 10 gauge, due to the greater surface area. Yes, it's true: Solid gauge conductors do not have the higher conductivity that stranded of the same gauge rating enjoys.

PCs have been made with conductors that are super tiny gauge, huge and almost as thick, or as thick, or thicker than garden hose; yet I maintain that the primary concept of the most obvious, potential enhancement is still lost unless a basic electrical/electronics principle is used. Try all types at the extremes and those that are in-between; I doubt that much of a difference will be noted...Rest assured, however, that I don't just 'believe': I know from real-world experience that there are true differences and as I mentioned before, here is the clue again-the improvement can be seen as well as heard.

Conductor trivia: Higher numbers are not always "better". Does everyone here know why a larger conductor equals a smaller gauge number? In case you don't, the rating was based upon the number of draws through dies, so more draws mean higher and higher gauge numbers, yet smaller and smaller wire sizes.
 
Stereo_type said:
Yes, I know that stranded is what tends to make it flexible, but that isn't the point I'm attempting to convey here; this is: The actual gauge is smaller (smaller gauge number = larger conductor) only due to being stranded; so it has a much larger conductivity area than solid 10 gauge, due to the greater surface area. Yes, it's true: Solid gauge conductors do not have the higher conductivity that stranded of the same gauge rating enjoys.

Conductor trivia: Higher numbers are not always "better". Does everyone here know why a larger conductor equals a smaller gauge number? In case you don't, the rating was based upon the number of draws through dies, so more draws mean higher and higher gauge numbers, yet smaller and smaller wire sizes.
Click to expand...

Thanks St.
I did know that you need a larger solid to equal a stranded. But, and there is always a but: The Romex feeding the outlet is no larger than my home brewed PC, so what little electrical theory I haven't forgotten since '91 (man, has it been THAT long?) suggests it will not be a bottleneck.

I purposely chose solid core for my PCs because I am replacing stock cords (or a pair of cheap aftermarket cords also) which are stranded. My theory is that they are very different, and I am trying to see if I can hear a difference at all before I go messing around with "better" or "tuning" or what have you.

Did not know how they came up with the bassackwards AWG scale. Thanks for that.
 
Stereo_type said:
Romex is out for any type of a utility PC, for obvious reasons, not that it lends itself to anything much that's beneficial in any event, due to the small gauge solid conductors. Clothes dryer cord is normally 10 gauge as mentioned by "...99", rated at 30 amps although it's not really like Romex, since the dryer cord is not only flexible, but stranded copper and a better conductor.

Yes, I know that stranded is what tends to make it flexible, but that isn't the point I'm attempting to convey here; this is: The actual gauge is smaller (smaller gauge number = larger conductor) only due to being stranded; so it has a much larger conductivity area than solid 10 gauge, due to the greater surface area. Yes, it's true: Solid gauge conductors do not have the higher conductivity that stranded of the same gauge rating enjoys.

PCs have been made with conductors that are super tiny gauge, huge and almost as thick, or as thick, or thicker than garden hose; yet I maintain that the primary concept of the most obvious, potential enhancement is still lost unless a basic electrical/electronics principle is used. Try all types at the extremes and those that are in-between; I doubt that much of a difference will be noted...Rest assured, however, that I don't just 'believe': I know from real-world experience that there are true differences and as I mentioned before, here is the clue again-the improvement can be seen as well as heard.

Conductor trivia: Higher numbers are not always "better". Does everyone here know why a larger conductor equals a smaller gauge number? In case you don't, the rating was based upon the number of draws through dies, so more draws mean higher and higher gauge numbers, yet smaller and smaller wire sizes.
Click to expand...

I'm having a hard time following this.

Can you lay it out in terms of solid vs. stranded with respect to diameter and effective cross-sectional area, for the conductivity and ampacity information?
 
The appliance pigtails sold for 240 devices are typically either 30 or 50 amps. Stoves, ovens and cooktops tend to use 50 amp lines and dryers tend to use 30 amp lines, however, my home uses a 50 amp line for the dryer.
 
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