I have a question about room size and bookshelf speakers. We have a living room/great room. The living room measures 16' by 24' with a ceiling sloping from 8' up to 12'. One of the 24' sides is open to the kitchen and dining area. Stereo equipment is on the 16' wall and is placed into built-in bookshelves. Speakers are about 12' apart on this short wall. Two sweet-spot chairs are about 15' from the speakers. I've always had floor standing speakers - JBL Jubals, L100t3's, L7's, and others. Currently have McIntosh LS330's. I'm thinking about going to quality bookshelves - Ascend Sierra-2's, Revel M105/106, SVS Ultra bookshelves. I'd actually put the speakers in the bookshelf. They'd be powered by a Mcintosh MC7200 (rated 200 WPC into 8 ohms, 300 WPC into 4 ohms) and a McIntosh C37. Also have an SVS SB2000 sub (12", 500 watts, 19 to 220 Hz) for bottom end help. I don't listen at really loud levels. My question is not about which speaker (although thoughts would be welcome), but is this even feasible? Can these small speakers fill a large 16' by 24' (3800 cu ft) room or am I being delusional. Thanks in advance for comments/advice.
Room Size and Bookshelf Speakers
- Thread starter rickmoen
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xero-D-hero
Super Member
I feel it can be done,but ti's gonna take a very specific sorta speaker to pull it off.
Anything that's built like a true studio monitor that's designed to allow soffit mounting should work in a deal like this.
IMO anything rear ported will be a compromise from the get-go no matter how well it's designed.
Putting something like that into a built-in bookcase is not going to be an ideal solution no matter how one approaches it.
To give specific speaker suggestions it would help to know what sorta space you have where you plan to put the speakers.
But as an example I would point to something like some Harbeth M 30.1 which are front ported.
That -or- possibly something like the JBL Synthesis 4306 would also fit the criteria.
That is if they were small enough to fit where you wanna put them of course.
So the speakers I'd be looking at would be either acoustic suspension -or- front ported.as SOP.
And I would also make sure they could handle some decent WPC & SPL too.
JM2¢ ~ HTH
Bret P.
Anything that's built like a true studio monitor that's designed to allow soffit mounting should work in a deal like this.
IMO anything rear ported will be a compromise from the get-go no matter how well it's designed.
Putting something like that into a built-in bookcase is not going to be an ideal solution no matter how one approaches it.
To give specific speaker suggestions it would help to know what sorta space you have where you plan to put the speakers.
But as an example I would point to something like some Harbeth M 30.1 which are front ported.
That -or- possibly something like the JBL Synthesis 4306 would also fit the criteria.
That is if they were small enough to fit where you wanna put them of course.
So the speakers I'd be looking at would be either acoustic suspension -or- front ported.as SOP.
And I would also make sure they could handle some decent WPC & SPL too.
JM2¢ ~ HTH
Bret P.
tomlinmgt
Lunatic Member
I’d be tempted to go with a design that utilizes a horn loaded compression driver and as large a woofer/mid bass driver as you can find. The JBL 4306 is an excellent suggestion as JBL’s Synthesis line is outstanding in every way (I’ve only heard floor standing models, however) and their Studio 530 is also getting rave reviews (I just got the 590’s and am very impressed). I have a pair of Klipsch RB-5ii’s with a SVS-SB12 out in the garage and that system sounds much bigger than one would expect from a set of bookshelf sized speakers.
To elaborate on the book shelf dimensions: There are three shelves. I'd hope to use the middle shelf, since it is closest to seated ear height. The shelves are 16.25" high, 17 " deep, and 42" wide. The flooring is tile.
Should also add that use is 95+% music. Budget max is $2k, used in good condition is also nice.
Thank you so much for the insight provided.
Should also add that use is 95+% music. Budget max is $2k, used in good condition is also nice.
Thank you so much for the insight provided.
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tomlinmgt
Lunatic Member
Tile floor and big space will make for a rather reverberant room unless you have big rugs and absorptive furnishings and anything along the walls to break up a hard, flat surface area. One side wall within close proximity to one speaker and no wall within close proximity to the other will create an imbalance of reflected sonic energy which will cause a number of sonic issues that can be easily detected. Sloped ceiling will help eliminate detrimental interaction with the highly (acoustically) reflective floor so have that working to your advantage...but the floor will have the ability to generate an early reflection (not a good thing) of sonic content from the speakers at the listening position...which a plush rug will help fix.
I’d try to find a design with some measure of control over dispersion/directivity so you can minimize the detrimental effects of reflected energy. Most any design with a horn or waveguide will help to accomplish this. A horn or a waveguide with a true compressoon driver will be better able to fill that space with sonic energy than a dome/cone/ribbon...and will likely be low in sensitivity so it won’t take much power to attain high SPL which minimizes the chances of pushing an amp toward or into a state of distortion. The sub is a big plus and I recommend some sort of digital room correction filter for that. Horn/waveguide designs that are maybe voiced on the neutral to warm side might be a good idea, too. Maybe research Tannoy.
I’d try to find a design with some measure of control over dispersion/directivity so you can minimize the detrimental effects of reflected energy. Most any design with a horn or waveguide will help to accomplish this. A horn or a waveguide with a true compressoon driver will be better able to fill that space with sonic energy than a dome/cone/ribbon...and will likely be low in sensitivity so it won’t take much power to attain high SPL which minimizes the chances of pushing an amp toward or into a state of distortion. The sub is a big plus and I recommend some sort of digital room correction filter for that. Horn/waveguide designs that are maybe voiced on the neutral to warm side might be a good idea, too. Maybe research Tannoy.
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So moved!
B&W 805s from any series have been used often in the past with a sub in many a installation such as you describe.
The bookself sized monitors from McIntosh also have filled the need over the years.
Have also used the top flight M&K monitors when a more forward "west coast" type sound was desired when M&K was a fully functioning company.
Could think of more, not necessarily of ones we installed but do suggest you look in the Mac compendium in the Mac forum to check out the monitor size LS320s which are really your current 330s with one less woofer in a smaller box.
Same with the 805s compared to the similar floorstanders.....the M&K never did have floorstanders but always just monitor size.
All these manufacturers offer a different "flavor" to their signature sound so some listening will of coarse be needed.
The bookself sized monitors from McIntosh also have filled the need over the years.
Have also used the top flight M&K monitors when a more forward "west coast" type sound was desired when M&K was a fully functioning company.
Could think of more, not necessarily of ones we installed but do suggest you look in the Mac compendium in the Mac forum to check out the monitor size LS320s which are really your current 330s with one less woofer in a smaller box.
Same with the 805s compared to the similar floorstanders.....the M&K never did have floorstanders but always just monitor size.
All these manufacturers offer a different "flavor" to their signature sound so some listening will of coarse be needed.
RTally
Speaker addict
Bookshelf sized speakers can fill a room as well as floor standing speakers. I have used both bookshelf and floorstanding speakers in the same room. They were modern speakers and the tweeters and woofers were the same size regardless of the cabinet size. Both the bookshelf and floorstanding speakers fill my space and can be heard down the hall and in the next room. The biggest difference I have noticed is that, generally, speakers with smaller cabinets are lacking in low frequency extension. There are some bookshelf speakers that go very low, but they are generally expensive or they are very large bookshelf speakers.
Since the OP has a good subwoofer, I think bookshelf-sized speakers would work well with his sized room.
Since the OP has a good subwoofer, I think bookshelf-sized speakers would work well with his sized room.
xero-D-hero
Super Member
So lets get this clear so we can all visualize the layout.
There must be two bookeshelves on that 16' wall that are approximately 9' apart that are both 42" wide,correct ?
Each bookshelf has three shelves,and you want to use the middle shelf as it's got the the proper tweeter height.
So speaker height & depth (16.25" H x 17" D) are really the limiting factors vs. the relatively ample 42" width.
Honestly that gives one lots of room to work with,just so long as putting the speakers on their side (horizontally) is'nt a deal breaker.
Something like the JBL 4412 (14.4" H x 23.5" W x 11.25" D ~ Horizontal) would fit in there no problemo.
And it's safe bet those could fill a large room with sound.
The JBL S38 is also a nice speaker for that sorta situation as well.
I'll ponder this a bit more and if any other speakers come to mind I'll pop back in and update this.
HTH
Bret P.
savatage1973
Addicted Member
A +1 on that one. Amazing speaker for the size, and can be had fairly inexpensively. Power handling is rated at 175w each, but I have driven them hard with far more power than that for brief periods. -3dB point is 45Hz, so, no slouch in the bass dept. before crossing over to the sub. Can be placed vertically or horizontally, but the recommended placement (as per JBL manual) is horizontal, due to the waveguide pattern used to modulate tweeter dispersion.
My apologies for not including pictures earlier in this process. Here are some shots of the wall where equipment goes - in the shelves. The equipment on the left side center shelf could be moved to the bottom shelf (although my wife may object to bending over to put in a DVD) to free-up both middle shelves for speaker placement.
Based on the excellent replies, it seems the answer to my question about using bookshelf speakers in my large room is a "YES!" - they will work. I'm a bit overwhelmed at the number of suggestions for smaller bookshelf speakers to research. I must admit, though, that it is lots of fun reading about different speakers. At the outset, I had not considered front porting or laying the speakers horizontally. As usual, posters on AK have expanded my knowledge and my thinking.
Based on the excellent replies, it seems the answer to my question about using bookshelf speakers in my large room is a "YES!" - they will work. I'm a bit overwhelmed at the number of suggestions for smaller bookshelf speakers to research. I must admit, though, that it is lots of fun reading about different speakers. At the outset, I had not considered front porting or laying the speakers horizontally. As usual, posters on AK have expanded my knowledge and my thinking.
No matter what they will sound like they're in a cave. If they must be in the niches then at least have them pulled all the way to the front eh?- any speaker mounted there would have issues. I have tried that before and it is hard on imaging and sound.
As for smallish speakers ability to fill a room, my Infinity Modulus System has no issues filling a room that size. Im thinking with the inclusion of the subwoofer your results should be fine unless a real headbanger lol.
That could be somewhat ameliorated by using the niches nearest the fireplace, but the imaging will be all over the place anyway with the echo emanating from the cave behind. Maybe stuffing a couple of throw pillows in behind the speakers?
And I've found mini blinds and or verticals help to break up reflections off windows, and the angle can be tweaked for best results lol.