S/N and Dynamic Range- have we been conned?

[fiddlefye]

One of my concerns has long been the amount of ambient noise in my listening environment. I live in a very urban environment and expect for middle of the night sessions there is almost always more outside sound than I would like. I can concentrate through it but it can mask low level detail (especially in some orchestral recordings) requiring me to use more gain than I am comfortable with in the louder passages. Living in a house with many windows (69!), many of them on the larger side definitely doesn't help.

 

[restorer-john]

Thanks for the input, yes, I fully understand S/N and Dynamic range in the electrical form, but as has been agreed by others here (thanks), the amplifier or cd player or device also produces a physical noise which is not ever discussed.

This physical noise prevents the amplifier or cd player ever really achieving in the real world its wonderful specs.

Unless you put your CD player in another room or your big amps in a cupboard, they, themselves, compromise the noise floor.

I live on acreage overlooking a valley. During the day, birds and general human noise means I don't seriously listen. At night it is, dead quiet. I mean I can hear a laptop power supply SMPS whine from the other end of the house.

Classical music (when I listen to it) generally shows the electrical and physical noise floor better than anything else as your ears become attuned and sensitive as the orchestral parts go down to a single soloist and although hiss can be heard, to hear a transport noise or an amps lamination buzz is just plain slack by the manufacturers.

It is expensive to pressure pot the transformers and manufacturers don't do it much these days and it shows in modern amps. Much of our old gear has silent big old EI transformers made in the day when even a tiny buzz meant it was rejected.

 

[hansvonaxion]

Turn everything off and listen. Traffic outside, plane overhead, noise from the fridge, central heating, occasional click from the house, computer fan. This is what I hear.

My brother was showing me his system one day when I noticed the power conditioner, he told me it produced a clean power source so there was no noise through the speakers.

I looked over at the kitchen and asked him, what about when the compressor on the fridge kicks in?

One of my concerns has long been the amount of ambient noise in my listening environment. I live in a very urban environment and expect for middle of the night sessions there is almost always more outside sound than I would like. I can concentrate through it but it can mask low level detail (especially in some orchestral recordings) requiring me to use more gain than I am comfortable with in the louder passages. Living in a house with many windows (69!), many of them on the larger side definitely doesn't help.

I remember hearing someone say that it is now "impossible" to listen to classical music in the city. I guess they calculated from the ambient noise just how loud you would need to be playing and worked out it would be impossible, I'm not sure if they meant from a legal or physical point though.

 

[fred soop]

.....
This physical noise prevents the amplifier or cd player ever really achieving in the real world its wonderful specs.
.....
It is expensive to pressure pot the transformers and manufacturers don't do it much these days and it shows in modern amps. Much of our old gear has silent big old EI transformers made in the day when even a tiny buzz meant it was rejected.

Harman Kardon Citation 24 (and similar Citation 22), allegedly high end and an excellent circuit design, have power transformers that buzz audibly. I ended up remounting the transformer on longer screws and trapping the mounting flanges between rubber grommets.


1407

 

[fredgarvin]

There's no mystery or con job involved with either of those numbers. They are merely electronic signal path measurements that provide an indication of the the quality of the amplification stage in the electronic signal path.
External mechanical "noise" as you described in your equipment has nothing to do with either.....nothing at all...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Signal-to-noise_ratio

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamic_range

It's always best to understand the definition of audio related terms. Otherwise, long threads can develop based on something that doesn't really exist. :yes:

 

[davidro]

To me it depends on how loud the noise is. I care more about other attributes. You go to a live concert (yes classical stuff, not where people drink and chat if not yell) and you're bound to hear all sorts of noise. That doesn't bother me unless some idiot just can't restrain him/herself. But, yeah, where the mechanical stuff makes too much noise it is annoying. But then again I'm a bit of vinyl-head sometimes

 

[SuperjazzyJa]

Personally, I don't pay much attention to most specs on audio gear. Most of them are meaningless and have nothing to do with whether or not a particular piece sounds good to me.

 

[theophile]

Once the needle hits the groove on a well recorded record, the music pulls me in.

I'm wallowing in the magnificence of it all. The music commands my attention.

 

[SuperjazzyJa]

Once the needle hits the groove on a well recorded record, the music pulls me in.

I'm wallowing in the magnificence of it all. The music commands my attention.

Or in my case, once the laser hits the disc...