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SA-7800, SA-8800, SA-9800 recap project

Of course with some help from forum members... :)

The ones you suggest from digikey could be ok, for both my SA-8800 (a bit high on capacitance and voltage, but I assume that is ok) and SA-9800. They are long life (3000 hours at 105°C is long I would say) And they should be quality being from Panasonic. But they are "general purpose" and would mean a 100 dollar (luckily that is less in euros) investment for both amps. I am a bit hesitant to order them without having confirmation from any of the Pioneer Experts (mtf, echowars especially) in this forum.

Any comments?

EDIT: I notice the diameter of the caps you suggest is 50mm. That is too wide for these amps. The need to be 40mm ideally to fit the clamps or smaller. Bigger is not possible.
 
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FWIW I used Panasonic T-UP when replacing the ripple filters on my SA-8800 and SA-9800. They fit right in to the PCB with no issues. I also think the unit sounds great.
 
Thanks Xeopheox. And good to know the amps sound good with these Panasonic's.

For the SA-9800 Digikey offers a 15000uF/80V T-UP Panasonic which is 40mm diameter and hopefully fits the PCB exactly:

http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=P10035-ND

For the SA-8800 I prefer to have a 12000uF/80V T-UP since it is 40mm and fits the clamps nicel. Digikey:

http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=P10034-ND

The best option with respect to values for the SA-8800 is the 12000uF/63V T-UP but this is only 35mm diameter. Digikey:

http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=P10024-ND

They are not on stock. I will have to wait 1-3 months depending on type, but that's ok.

What about installing 80V caps in the SA-8800? Specs prescribe 63V. But the 80volts would make it look a lot nicer since the clamps fit these while the 63V T-UP is not wide enough with its 35mm.
 
When I did my SA-8800 I used the ones that were a little smaller. I usually wrap a length of dense foam weatherstripping around the capacitor to make it fill out the old bracket if I can't find one that fits exactly.

I personally don't see a problem going from 63V to 80V if it allows you to fill that bracket (and avoid the long wait). As long as you never go UNDER the rated voltage...
 
xoaphexox said:
I personally don't see a problem going from 63V to 80V if it allows you to fill that bracket (and avoid the long wait). As long as you never go UNDER the rated voltage...
Click to expand...

I once heard that the expected life span of an electrolyte cap significantly reduces if it does not operated at at least 90% of the rated voltage. But I am not sure at all about this or even the percentage.

So I would assume when I have to choose, I need to choose for values rather than size. So any confirmation about this capacitor life expectancy?
 
I have heard something similar although I don't remember the values - hopefully someone with the materials and application knowledge can chime in.
 
Well, since there aren't any new comments on the choice with respect to voltage, I will go for the 63V type for the SA-8800. That will also make delivery two months sooner!

I will find a way to make them fit the brackets, probably with rubber tape. It's only 2.5mm that needs to be "filled" around.

Thanks Xoaphexox for your help!
 
A little update: I have placed the Nichicon 8200uF/50V caps in my SA-7800 and added the 1uF film caps mtf suggested (I used 4, one on each cap, but I think two would also be sufficient since the caps are organized in pairs).

I did not drill new holes but bent the pins slightly to fit the 15mm space. The diameter of the new ones is barely ok. The caps touch each other and the resistor in-between. I used RTV162 to glue them solidly to the PCB.

The sound of the SA-7800 was affected. The bass is more solid and has more power and control. But the difference is not huge. Overall the sound quality of this SA-7800 after a full recap is detailed, pleasant for the ears, powerful and noise free. They were driving a set of Tannoy Mercury S speakers on 60 cm stands when I did this assessment.

Conclusion is that these Nichicons are not the most appropriate replacements due to their diameter. But sound-wise they are fine. And not to forget this amp now should be able to run for at least another decade or two without malfunctioning electrolytes....
 
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Back again. Since all of the caps I am looking for have a long backorder time, I continued my search and found Panasonic T-HA series on Mouser. These are also "general purpose" but a lot longer life than the T-UP series: 3000 hours at 105°C.

So I have prepared a project with caps for both the SA-8800 and SA-9800.

667-ECE-T1KA153FA (Panasonic T-HA series 15000uF/80V 40x80mm) for the SA-9800

667-ECE-T1JA123EA (Panasonic T-HA series 12000uF/63V 35x50mm) for the SA-8800

They both have 4 pins which should be fitting four of the five holes in the PCB.

I am in doubt though about the choice for the SA-8800. What if I use the same as for the SA-9800? They would then fit the brackets without "filling" to make up the 5mm diameter difference. And they will most likely better fit the PCB holes. Mouser does not offer any 40mm "in between" in the T-HA series (12000uF/80V or 15000/63V), so I end up with the SA-9800 caps as closest alternatives.

My question, can the SA-8800 transformer and diodes handle the peak (surge) current of four 15000uF/80V caps? And what does the higher voltage rate mean for life expectancy?

Hopefully anybody can help me decide!
 
Time for an update!

This weekend I replaced the four power caps of my SA-8800 with the ones mentioned above (12000uF, 63V Panasonic THA). I also added a 1uF caps on each big one (as mtf suggested earlier in this thread).

The four pins easily slide into 4 of the five holes in the PCB. The only thing is that the replacements are 35mm (instead of 40mm), So I needed to use some tape increasing the diameter to match the clamp.

I can't hear any difference, although a direct comparison is impossible... The sound is as good, open and detailed as ever. So I can highly recommend these caps as a replacement.

At the end of the month Mouser finally has the 15000uF THA's in stock so I can replace the power caps in my SA-9800.
 
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Backlight said:
Time for an update!

This weekend I replaced the four power caps of my SA-8800 with the ones mentioned above (12000uF, 63V Panasonic THA). I also added a 1uF caps on each big one (as mtf suggested earlier in this thread).

The four pins easily slide into 4 of the five holes in the PCB. The only thing is that the replacements are 35mm (instead of 40mm), So I needed to use some tape increasing the diameter to match the clamp.

I can't hear any difference, although a direct comparison is impossible... The sound is as good, open and detailed as ever. So I can highly recommend these caps as a replacement.

At the end of the month Mouser finally has the 15000uF THA's in stock so I can replace the power caps in my SA-9800.
Click to expand...

Hi,

Thanks for the update and sharing info!

It sounds like the new power caps did not sound as good as original power caps on SA-8800? What mod would you say resulted in the most performance improvement?

Does 9800 sound noticeably better then 8800? I have 8800 and thinking about getting 9800 if price is right on eBay.

Cheers
 
I might have been a bit unclear in my wording. The replacement caps sound as good, I don't hear a difference, but that is my subjective impression.

So Panasonic THA caps are highly recommended!

With respect to sound difference I would say the SA-9800 sounds more controlled which is easy to explain by it's higher power rates. She just has more reserves to keep low basses well under control. On the mid and highs I would say both SA-9800 and SA-8800 shine with clear, detailed and "breathing"sound. It is worth the upgrade, especially if you have a turntable hooked up because both MM and MC pre-amp are excellent.

Good luck!
 
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