SA-8500 II - it is a good vintage amp?

[GusGuT]

Hello everybody,
I recently purchased a SA-8500 II in excellent cosmetic condition and in a fully working condition. I have opened the amp and it's completely original in all of the parts including the output power transistors. It was completely clean and free of dust (a very thin layer) and I have the impression that it was managed with a lot of care by the previous owner.

In my system it is connected to the Klipsch R620F towers. (cd player --> topping E30 DAC ---> SA8500II)

To my ears this amp sounds great and warm. I have the impression that the sound of the amp balance (or sinergy) the character of the Klipsch for a good amp-speaker combination.

My questions are basically two.
- it is a valid amp in comparison to entry-mid levels of today modern amps?
- from someone with more experience, the Klipsch are a good match or there is something better to pair for having an improved sound result?

Thanks in advance for any comments or feedback from you guys.

 

[rcs16]

Not sure what you are asking specifically as being valid. It depends, a amp is valid. I guess you could ask what’s changed since then. Well the specific semiconductor parts used are not in production but newer types are available now. How about features, does a new amp have the same or different features. For one new amps are not so concerned with tape as a source.
As for speakers Klipsch or otherwise, usually not an issue unless there is something unusable about the speaker specs.

 

[GusGuT]

Not sure what you are asking specifically as being valid

Thanks @rcs16 for your feedback.

Knowing that this amplifier it's about 46 years old, I was interested to know if this amp is a good vintage machine? (the one I have is fully original so I could suppose that it is, at least, a reliable one)
Or if today a new entry-mid level integrated is a better machine in terms of sound characteristics in comparison to this vintage one (which I suppose at that period was a more mid-high level component)

 

[Krešo]

Yes, SA-8500 II is a very good integrated Amp. A very, very good Amp. And it has a sweet phono stage if I might add! I have one, fully restored. Sounds amazing. Performs amazing. It is far from being a top of the line Amp. but all these Pioneers were made really nice. And built to last. If you have a chance to get one, go for it. You won't regret it. I have 8500 II, 7500 II and 6500 II and they all work and sound superb. Somehow I am never finding 9500 II which is not destroyed, both on the outside and inside. But I will get one sooner or later. Engineers and designers back then knew how to make a great product.

 

[jayvis]

The SA-8500 II is a very good integrated amp. A good friend had one back in the early 80's hooked up to Pioneer HPM-100 speakers and the sound was excellent. In fact, four close friends and myself all had HPM-100 speakers back then. A couple of them still have those speakers and refuse to sell them. I drove mine with a Pioneer SA-8800 that I wish I would have hung onto.

 

[Ian C.]

I hope so - i picked one up and hope to get it working sometime. I liked it that it's 60-ish watts like my SA-9100, and unlike my sa-9100, dual mono design. Eager to hear it.

 

[GusGuT]

Yes, SA-8500 II is a very good integrated Amp

Thanks for your feedback about it.
You mentioned that you have also the 7500 II and the 6500 II.
Do you notice differences when compared all of these amps?

 

[GusGuT]

I drove mine with a Pioneer SA-8800 that I wish I would have hung onto.

Thanks for the feedback @jayvis. Interesting that you have the 8800 spec.
Do you have had the chances to compare your vintage amp sound and/or tonality with a more modern amps?
If yes, do you have extra feedback about sound and tonality comparisons?

 

[jayvis]

Thanks for the feedback @jayvis. Interesting that you have the 8800 spec.
Do you have had the chances to compare your vintage amp sound and/or tonality with a more modern amps?
If yes, do you have extra feedback about sound and tonality comparisons?

I sold my SA-8800 and HPM-100 speakers in 1987. My systems have changed a number of times since then and I've always updated with progressively newer speakers and amplifiers, which I always found to be an improvement over the prior. Nostalgia is the only thing that makes me wish I still had the SA-8800.

 

[GusGuT]

@jayvis
What are the sound improvements you have reached with newer electronics?
Starting from the vintage SA-8800 amp, do you know which is the most remarkable improvement you have found in the time?

 

[jayvis]

@jayvis
What are the sound improvements you have reached with newer electronics?
Starting from the vintage SA-8800 amp, do you know which is the most remarkable improvement you have found in the time?

The most pronounced improvement was when I replaced my Adcom GFA-5400 amp and Adcom GFP-555ii with the McIntosh MC252 amp and McIntosh C45 preamp. I noticed a fuller and tonally sweeter sound as well as a wider and better defined sound stage. Prior to that, my amplifier changes were due mainly to increased power requirements and/or synergy with my speakers at the time. After my switch to McIntosh amplification, I found it easier to concentrate on how different speakers alone could improve the sound of my system.

 

[GusGuT]

I noticed a fuller and tonally sweeter sound as well as a wider and better defined sound stage

Thanks for sharing your experience.
Obviously with your high level of gear you are competing in a different league, but good to know that with better (and excellent) electronics the sound improvements are a big step.

 

[GusGuT]

For who have made comparisons between vintage amps (like this SA-8500 II series) and a modern (today or recently) amps... which new devices models in the entry-mid level are competing with these vintage ones?
My question is related to sound quality, tonality, capabilities of slightly (or moderate) warm sound, etc.

 

[jayvis]

For who have made comparisons between vintage amps (like this SA-8500 II series) and a modern (today or recently) amps... which new devices models in the entry-mid level are competing with these vintage ones?
My question is related to sound quality, tonality, capabilities of slightly (or moderate) warm sound, etc.

I'm assuming since you just got your SA-8500II, that you plan to keep it for a while. If that's the case, trying to compare it to a new or late model amp now seems to be a bit late. Just based on my experience with Pioneer amps of that vintage, I could suggest quite a few new mid-level amps that will equal or exceed their performance, but that would be purely subjective. You'll be the only one who can decide on your own what features, power capability, and sound signature meets what you are after. At 60W per channel with your Pioneer, and your positive experience with Klipsch speakers, you might want to explore an upgrade within the current Klipsch Reference Premier line or a good used Klipsch Heritage line speaker. All Klipsch speakers are very efficient, so 60W/channel will be enough to adequately drive any of them. In my opinion, the speakers will ultimately provide the most noticeable sound improvements in your system.

 

[GusGuT]

I'm assuming since you just got your SA-8500II, that you plan to keep it for a while.

I appreciate very much your interest and feedback regarding this thread and my doubts.
You got exactly at the point. Honestly I'm a newbie with no much experience about testing and changing gear in order to build a modest system (and probably an improved one in the near future).
I was a teenager at the end of the 80's so I grow up with the 80's-90's sound and tonality in a period in which the sound was coloured and it was a V-shaped frequency response with emphasis on lows and highs.
For me this kind of sound is "more familiar" while I'm aware that is not the correct one in comparison to a more flat or neutral frequency response.
I found an electronic repair shop in where the technician used several amps for testing electronics and loudspeakers. The 8500 II was forgotten (in the middle of other vintage amps) in a corner. I asked for purchasing it and the guy gave to me a very reasonable price.
I purchased a vintage amp because some of the new amps have (to my ears) an analytical sound (on the extreme for example Rotel sound)
So yes, I hope to keep the SA-8500 II longer in time but if I have the chance to test a new amp for sure I would prefer one with fresh electronics (or a double setup vintage-new amp to swap in function on the emphasis in the music that I like)

If you have in mind few amps suggestions that could be equal or better in performance for sure I'm interested in your feedback about.

In my opinion, the speakers will ultimately provide the most noticeable sound improvements in your system.

Yes. I love the Klipsch sound and probably for the reasons explained before the V-shaped of the Klipsch sound is something that I like. Considering that in any case with the new RP series, for example, these series have a less exasperated tweeter than in the past. This is clearly showing that also Klipsch is moving into a more flat high response or a more smooth high-end response.

On my plan I would like upgrade one day to the new RP-6000 II (or 8000 II) and/or probably I will be seriously interested on the Heresy series if I found a good used one.

Why Klipsch? Because I mainly listen rock in all of the genres (70s-80s rock, acoustic rock, progressive rock) and Klipsch is one of the best with the music that I like.

 

[jayvis]

I appreciate very much your interest and feedback regarding this thread and my doubts.
You got exactly at the point. Honestly I'm a newbie with no much experience about testing and changing gear in order to build a modest system (and probably an improved one in the near future).
I was a teenager at the end of the 80's so I grow up with the 80's-90's sound and tonality in a period in which the sound was coloured and it was a V-shaped frequency response with emphasis on lows and highs.
For me this kind of sound is "more familiar" while I'm aware that is not the correct one in comparison to a more flat or neutral frequency response.
I found an electronic repair shop in where the technician used several amps for testing electronics and loudspeakers. The 8500 II was forgotten (in the middle of other vintage amps) in a corner. I asked for purchasing it and the guy gave to me a very reasonable price.
I purchased a vintage amp because some of the new amps have (to my ears) an analytical sound (on the extreme for example Rotel sound)
So yes, I hope to keep the SA-8500 II longer in time but if I have the chance to test a new amp for sure I would prefer one with fresh electronics (or a double setup vintage-new amp to swap in function on the emphasis in the music that I like)

If you have in mind few amps suggestions that could be equal or better in performance for sure I'm interested in your feedback about.


Yes. I love the Klipsch sound and probably for the reasons explained before the V-shaped of the Klipsch sound is something that I like. Considering that in any case with the new RP series, for example, these series have a less exasperated tweeter than in the past. This is clearly showing that also Klipsch is moving into a more flat high response or a more smooth high-end response.

On my plan I would like upgrade one day to the new RP-6000 II (or 8000 II) and/or probably I will be seriously interested on the Heresy series if I found a good used one.

Why Klipsch? Because I mainly listen rock in all of the genres (70s-80s rock, acoustic rock, progressive rock) and Klipsch is one of the best with the music that I like.

I'm a bit confused about your opinion on Rotel amps' sound. I have a Rotel RA-1572 integrated amp in my secondary system and I find it to be a very neutral sounding amp. That could possibly be due to the fact that it's a class A/B design with a good toroidal transformer. What modern Rotel amps do you think have an analytical sound signature? As far as other modern amp recommendations, I believe you should stick with class A/B amps based on what you explained. Besides the addition of digital inputs on the modern integrated amps, you'll also get the modern convenience of remote control. The Marantz PM7000N and PM8006 are good examples to research and try if possible. The Cambridge Audio CXA61 and CXA81 would also be good ones to check out. Of course, your budget constraints will play a big part in what you end up with.

 

[GusGuT]

@jayvis
You are not the first one that recommend Cambridge Audio. Probably I will look on these in a future.
Regarding Rotel, it's well known as a lineal and neutral tonality but when paired with Klipsch gave a reinforcement on the highs which to my ears is moved more on the analytical side. I considered entry levels Rotel below €1000.
Your Rotel RA-1572 mk2 is already a mid-level which here is Europe is above €1700-1800.

Concerning my SA-8500 II, at the moment I'm very happy with it and I hope to keep longer (46-47 years old now). Saying that I thinking that the best advice was your one to change the speaker with a superior Klipsch series... This is what I will try to do in a near future.

 

[jayvis]

@jayvis
You are not the first one that recommend Cambridge Audio. Probably I will look on these in a future.
Regarding Rotel, it's well known as a lineal and neutral tonality but when paired with Klipsch gave a reinforcement on the highs which to my ears is moved more on the analytical side. I considered entry levels Rotel below €1000.
Your Rotel RA-1572 mk2 is already a mid-level which here is Europe is above €1700-1800.

Concerning my SA-8500 II, at the moment I'm very happy with it and I hope to keep longer (46-47 years old now). Saying that I thinking that the best advice was your one to change the speaker with a superior Klipsch series... This is what I will try to do in a near future.

Keep in mind that whatever Klipsch speakers you try, you'll hear a reinforcement of high frequencies, no matter what solid state amplifier you use. The newer Klipsch Heritage speakers seem to have smoothed out the transition from mids to highs, which lessens that high reinforcement to some extent. I haven't heard any of the newest Klipsch Reference Premier speakers yet, so I can't comment on how they sound compared to the speakers you have now. If you really crave a warmer sound, I'd suggest you explore other speaker brands or possibly think about tube amplification which seems to appeal to a lot of folks who want a more laid-back sound with their Klipsch speakers. The Klipsch forum might provide more information on the issues you're concerned with. As a side note, I own a pair of Klipsch Heresy II speakers that I bought new in 1986. I found that the addition of a subwoofer not only added low frequencies that the Heresy's are unable to produce, but also seemed to warm the sound of my system. I'm guessing that a more full range frequency response gave me that impression. Since then, I've used a subwoofer in my main system, regardless of my speakers and amp. That might be another thing you could experiment with now, with your current system. You might find that a subwoofer was the real missing link instead of a different amp and/or speakers. Good luck.

 

[GusGuT]

Thanks again @jayvis for your feedback.
I think that another possibility for having warm sound is due to the introduction of this SA-8500 II amp.
In comparison to other Japanese amps the Pioneer gave me more low-end with richer harmonics that I never heard before.

For sure i will experiment including a mid-level Klipsch speakers and probably a sub as extension of the low frequencies.

As last, I just hope to maintain the reliability of the SA-8500 while, in the meantime, I will try to have listening sessions with modern and fresh amps that could produce good synergy with Klipsch speakers (class A amps, tube amps, integrated as the suggested Cambridge Audio specs)