Sansui 2000x vs Sansui 6060

[Gang-Twanger]

I'm running my 2000x, through a pair of Wharfedale W60E, in my bedroom system. I really like the sound of the combo.

Sweet! That's what I wanted to hear. I know the W60E's don't have much snob appeal, but I really love those speakers (Hey, my Dual 1019 doesn't have much snob appeal either, but I'd never sell that thing....). And it seems that they really-respond well to warm-sounding receivers/amps (and they work well in semi-nearfield listening environments, which is a plus in my cramped apartment). I ran an NAD 3140 (Paid $100 for it) through the W60's for about 6 months, and the sound never thrilled me. But let me back up a bit here - I found the Wharfedales on Craigslist along with a pair of Marantz RM100's - both for $30 (I still have yet to try the Marantz speakers). When I was at the guy's house and carrying one of the speakers out to my car, I noticed a beat-up-looking little mid '70's Rotel RX-203A receiver sitting on a shelf. When I asked about it, the guy said, "You want it? Take it!", so I did. I found the NAD on 'da Bay that same week (recommended by a member from another forum), so I planned on using that. I hooked up the Rotel for an afternoon just to make sure everything was good with the Wharfedales, but I swapped it out as soon as the NAD arrived. And like I said, I listened to it for about 6 months, and I was gradually becoming more and more disillusioned with the sound I was getting. So one day, I hooked the Rotel back up, and it was a night-and-day difference. The Wharfedales suddenly came to life, and the sound was warm, smooth, and clear (clearer than the NAD, which really-surprised me - Basically, the entry-level Rotel totally-smoked the NAD integrated - But the NAD is from '81, and it's a different type of sound - more-"accurate", which I understand now - It just wasn't a good match for my speakers, but it's probably great with others). So the Rotel has been pulling backup duty until I can get my 4000 fixed (I bought that late last year, but the thing suffered a rough ride during shipping, and it arrived with a non-working left channel, so that's set aside until I can get it fixed - The only decent vintage audio repair place has already had my turntable for 6 months - They're excessively-backed-up with repair orders, so I'm holding off on bringing my Sansui 4000 to them, and I'm thinking of trying to find a different place - The problem is that I don't want to ship the thing after what it already went through).

Anyway, so I'm getting great sound with that little Rotel powering the W60E's, but the Rotel is still a tad underpowered for the 50w-per-channel Wharfs (I don't know the exact power rating for the Rotel, but I'm guessing it's no more than 20-25w per channel). The 2000x I just bought should be a better match. Still, even with the underpowered Rotel, I'm still getting smooth, warm, completely-non-fatiguing sound that I'm addicted to, so I listen to it all the time. I can't wait to plug in the 2000x though. I'm pumped for that.

The W60E's aren't the perfect speaker (They have a slight bump around the 75-80hz mark), but I really love the sound. And they're from around '73, so I figured they should be a good match for the 2000x, which is from '72 (If I read the serial # right). I'm already getting a decent level of synergy from the Rotel, but things should be better with the Sansui. It's nice to hear that the Wharfs go well with the Sansui. I can't wait to hear this thing.

 

[Gang-Twanger]

I like the sound of the 2000x & 4000 better than the 9090db and own all three. The 2000x is the receiver I keep coming back to if a high powered amp is not required. It's warm tubey sound with my EV's and C40 JBL's (both horn speakers) makes for a great match. Although the 2000x is almost too much power for them. I'm assuming your Wharfedale's are horn also? Bob

The only thing negative I can say about the 2000x & 4000 is when their in phono or aux mode etc. the face isn't light up like the other receivers.

Yeah, I know what you mean. I wish the tuner lights stayed on even when you're not using the FM or AM. To me, those lights are part of the unit's appeal.

And speaking of looks, lately I'm beginning to come around on the looks of the early '70's models, while at the same I'm starting to get a bit jaded when it comes to the X0X0 Sansui models.

My Wharfedales are actually a 3-way, acoustic-suspension design with a 12.5" woofer, a 5" midrange (Maybe the best-sounding midwoofer I've ever heard - Incredible with human voices, which also makes the W60E's a great choice for home theater mains), and a dome tweeter (1", maybe - Not sure, but I like the sound a lot - Apparently the sound is similar to the fried-egg tweeter of the W60D - Some W60D's actually came with the same dome tweeter as my W60E's, and apparently it's still all the same basic sound). So no horns. I'm not really a big fan of horn-driven speaker systems (unless it's the JBL Paragon system - I'll make an exception with that model). Plus, I like the looks of cone speakers a lot more. The classic JBL studio monitors are great, but that's not the kind of sound I want for home listening.

Anyway, the 2000x that I bought should be easy to find (Oh wait, since the auction's over, I guess it WON'T be easy to find). I'd post a link, but I don't want this thread getting moved. I'll try and post a picture.

 

[Gang-Twanger]

Here's some pictures of my 2000x..... I would have uploaded a picture of the speakers I'll be powering with it, but AK says I already did once, so here's a link to the thread where I posted an image of the speaker without the grills (At the top of the page).... By the way, those speakers aren't my actual speakers, as you'll read in that thread - The cabs on those aren't as nice as mine, but they look better with the grills off than mine do, and it's a great shot of the driver makeup (Sorry, I haven't gotten around to doing the digital camera thing yet)...

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=263236&page=3

Aside from that one ding on the top edge of the cabinet, the receiver seems to be in great shape (Looks like it was owned by a non-smoker, judging by how clean the back is).

 

[Gang-Twanger]

I have so-much trouble uploading pictures. Here's the speakers with the grills on (Again, not my actual speakers - With the grills on, mine look a little nicer than these)....

 

[Zvezda]

And speaking of looks, lately I'm beginning to come around on the looks of the early '70's models, while at the same I'm starting to get a bit jaded when it comes to the X0X0 Sansui models.

I'm with you there. The X0X0 series doesn't look necessarily bad or anything, but it's definitely more busy looking than the earlier stuff. Here's a pic of my 3300. Just clean lines, simple uncluttered design.

Now why on earth did that appear upside down?

 

[Gang-Twanger]

I can't speak for the 2000x, but I have a restored Sansui 3300 which is the same era, and the warmth and musicality is incredible. I thought my modern Klipsch speakers were just cold and harsh by nature and I'd been constantly questioning my purchase of them until going with an early 70s Sansui. It's no exaggeration to say it brought the breath of life those speakers sorely needed.

Now, I'd love to hear my uncle's 9090db sometime, but I know he'll never let it go. He never uses it anymore, though.

Are you referring to the modern reissues of their vintage line (the new Klipschorns, Cornwalls, Heresies, etc,), or do you mean the REALLY-modern-looking stuff with the funky paintjobs (The copper-colored stuff that looks all space-age)?

That actually makes a lot of sense - using a warmer, smoother receiver to tame the brightness while at the same time adding the "breath of life". Lucky for me, I like full-on warmth.

 

[Gang-Twanger]

I'm with you there. The X0X0 series doesn't look necessarily bad or anything, but it's definitely more busy looking than the earlier stuff. Here's a pic of my 3300. Just clean lines, simple uncluttered design.

Now why on earth did that appear upside down?

Do you live in a bat-cave?

Wait, maybe if I turrrrn my head a bit...... Owww. Doesn't work, I guess. Hey, I haven't even gotten around to taking my own pictures and uploading yet, so don't feel bad (I'm a little behind in the rat race).

 

[Zvezda]

Are you referring to the modern reissues of their vintage line (the new Klipschorns, Cornwalls, Heresies, etc,), or do you mean the REALLY-modern-looking stuff with the funky paintjobs (The copper-colored stuff that looks all space-age)?

That actually makes a lot of sense - using a warmer, smoother receiver to tame the brightness while at the same time adding the "breath of life". Lucky for me, I like full-on warmth.

They're RB-25s. They're bookshelfs from the modern reference series. Link. Would love to try some of the classics, but don't really have the cash or the room for that!

Do you live in a bat-cave?

Haha, no, but if this site is hosted in Australia or China, I think we have our answer.

 

[Gang-Twanger]

They're RB-25s. They're bookshelfs from the modern reference series. Link. Would love to try some of the classics, but don't really have the cash or the room for that!


Haha, no, but if this site is hosted in Australia or China, I think we have our answer.

That's the same reason I'll never move to the Deep South (Southeastern US) - Too-many things that can kill ya' (and I've had an especially-bad fear of bats - Grew up in a house that had a nest in the attic, and they were a huge problem - I once stepped my foot into one of my sneakers, only to find that there was something balled-up in the toe-area - I dropped the sneaker on the floor and it started squeaking - Not for me - And rabies is 100% fatal once you start showing symptoms - Also not for me).

 

[Zvezda]

heh, when i was a property manager at an old apartment building, bat catching was a regular duty of mine. i don't miss it.

 

[Gang-Twanger]

Now those are much-better-looking than the space-age-looking stuff (I think they mostly-gear that stuff towards the home theater crowd anyway). I've always liked subdued-looking stuff.

 

[Gang-Twanger]

Maybe it IS a batcave..... What's that hairy thing in the upper-left (Well, bottom-right

) corner? I guess it depends which way you're looking... You don't own a baby sea lion, do you? Those could be nostrils.... The receiver looks great though (I love receivers with clean lines and a simple, upside-down design). Did that come out at the same time? I wan't sure. Mine is from the last year they made them, I believe ('72, I think). Man, I can't wait to hear this thing. I'm STOKED, man!

I just read somewhere that the 2000x at basically 40 watts per channel only draws about 70w from a wall outlet. That's huge for my situation. How can such a powerful amp draw so-little? And power ratings from the '70's were so-much different from what we see today. It's "real-world" watts. That's why a 40 watt amp from the early '70's can kick the snot out of a 75 watt amp from today, and do it for a lot less money.

Plus, I need that warmth and smoothness. I can't see listening to that dry-sounding Al Green stuff with a modern amp.... or Hendrix for that matter.

 

[Zvezda]

haha, that's a well-used cat toy. as far as exact year, i'm not sure. all i know is it's early 70s, presumably the same time frame the 2000x was being made.

 

[Gang-Twanger]

Your 3300 has 3 pairs of discreet pairs of speaker outputs (which I think my 4000 also has). Does that mean you can hook up two pairs of speakers AND a subwoofer? The 2000x only has two, but that's because of the 40 watt rating, I assume. I doubt I'll ever need a subwoofer with my setup, but it would still be nice to know I could do the sub thing if I needed it (I don't see the need for two pairs of speakers in a 2-channel setup anyway - especially with my smaller living room).

I assume yours has the ability to separate the preamp from the power amp, which is great because the preamp stage is killer on the early '70's Sansui receivers. I doubt I'll need a separate phono preamp for my Dual 1019. I can't wait to get a good soundcard so I can do some vinyl-ripping. Provided that the DAC is good-enough, I should be able to get some excellent, vibey results from the vintage gear.

I thought I remembered hearing about some Sansui models having some sort of trim pot under the chassis (I could be thinking of the later X0X0 models like the 9090db - Not sure. These Sansuis are awesome though, and most of them still fall under the radar. The only ones that don't are the ones I don't really want anyway. The 9090 has too-much power, and the later G-Series models don't have the type of sound I like, so it's not a problem. But great models like the 1000x, 2000x, 3000A, 4000, 4000x, and 5000X can all be had for little money. That's what drew me to the Sansui stuff in the first place.

 

[Gang-Twanger]

haha, that's a well-used cat toy. as far as exact year, i'm not sure. all i know is it's early 70s, presumably the same time frame the 2000x was being made.

Wow, an almost-40-year-old cat toy - I guess it IS well-used....

I know what you meant though. If I spin my head upside-down, I can see that yours looks very-similar to mine - more than I thought it would. I still haven't figured out the wattage for the 3300. More than mine, I would assume. Their model #'s can be a little confusing though, because the 2000x has 39 watts per channel (basically 40 watts) while the 4000 has 45 (I think), and yet the later 6060 has only 40 watts per side. Weird.

Right now, I'm listening for the first time to this Al Green collection I found called "Listen/The Rarities". It started off a bit weak, but it got really good after the first two or three songs. It's a nice, smooth mastering too, which helps a lot. Those old Hi Records mixes were really-dry-sounding.

 

[Zvezda]

the 3300 is only 28 watts, but with speakers rated at about 94db efficiency, that's plenty. if i wanted to, i would be able to hook up another pair of speakers and a sub...this is one of the few receivers i've seen that allows all 3 pairs of speakers to play simultaneously. and yes, it does allow for the preamp and power amp to be separated. as far as that trim pot, i'm not sure. haven't looked for one or needed it.

 

[superdog]

I have the 2000x and 890db and a 9090db and the 2000x is a warmer sounding unit.I did a head to head comparison with the 9090db and the x sounded every bit as good until the power of the db took over.They are all great units but the x is perfect for driving smaller inefficient speakers to very nice levels.I happen to like how the lights blackout when in phono or aux mode.My x unit will stay with me forever.

 

[RCA Jack]

I never owned a 6060 but I had a 7070 until a buddy talked me into selling it to him. I also had a 2000x until another buddy talked me into selling it to him recently (I must be a soft touch). Both were nice receivers but then I love all the vintage stuff from that era, especially the Sansui's. Unless someone's owned them and done sound comparisons with other gear, it may be difficult for them to fully appreciate the "warm sound" of the Sansui's of that era.

Incidentally, because I port so much stuff from my computer through my receivers anymore, I liked the tuner blackout feature of the 2000x as well. Fortunately, my HK930 has that feature too.

 

[ericson38]

the 3300 is only 28 watts, but with speakers rated at about 94db efficiency, that's plenty. if i wanted to, i would be able to hook up another pair of speakers and a sub...this is one of the few receivers i've seen that allows all 3 pairs of speakers to play simultaneously. and yes, it does allow for the preamp and power amp to be separated. as far as that trim pot, i'm not sure. haven't looked for one or needed it.

Check out the readings from an unrestored 3300-

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=287389

 

[Zvezda]

oh wow, for some reason i thought it was 28. i haven't been able to find much info on the 3300, so thanks so much for that link. very interesting and impressive!