• The move to the new server is done. There are some software and database maintenance updates in process. This has us passing the hat around to help out. We appreciate any donations. Seriously, even a dollar helps. The payment page may be found here - https://www.audiokarma.org/support.html

Sansui 7000 Short on driver board

Mr_Mustrd

AK Subscriber
Subscriber
Hello from Ohio!

I'm at the last leg of restoring this beautiful receiver that sat in storage for over 20 years it's in great condition and has all the button labels, also came with service manual, operation manual, schematic, and warranty card, I’ve never bought something with so much paper work. :biggrin:

Last night was able to set the bias at 30ma for both left and right channel and music was playing great in both channels. Had everything back together except for the wooden cover and faceplate, this morning I installed the faceplate and wooden case, did one final check on the dim bulb and my 60w bulb didn’t dim like normal but stayed bright. So after taking everything back apart, I’ve narrowed down where my problem is coming from, the right driver board. I’ve listed below all the troubleshooting steps that I’ve done but I cannot locate were the problem is, and I’m hoping I can get some good orderly direction from the experts. The tools that I have are, fluke DMM, variac, dim bulb, scope, and signal generator.

Work done so far:

When I first bought this receiver, it was advertised that the right fuse was blowing, and I found that the right output transistors were blown. Both left and right output transistors have been replaced with MJ21194G, after being replaced everything was working great.

I’ve deoxited and lube the switches and pots several times since I’ve read that the switches are notorious for being dirty.

Tone board (this Sansui is the older style with the big tone board), power/protection board (SCR mod NOT done), and driver boards have been rebuilt with new caps and known faulty transistors replaced. After every board was rebuilt, the bias was set for both left and right channel and confirmed music played in Aux (FM is very faint, but AM does work) in both left and right channels with no distortion, pops, cracks, etc., also made sure all knobs and switches didn’t create any new noises of pops and crackles before moving onto the next board. The BOM that I’ve used has been from the two links below:

https://audiokarma.org/forums/index...recap-and-restore.807427/page-5#post-12254758

https://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/sansui-7000-restore.963684/

Troubleshooting:

Main in and pre amp plugs have been pulled for all troubleshooting steps

Bulb goes dim when both driver boards have been pulled, and only goes bright when the right driver board has been connected.

With only the right driver board and leaving the left disconnected, it does not matter which slot the right driver board is connected into, bulb glows bright and stays bright in either one. But with the right board disconnected and the left connected, the bulb is dim, does not matter which slot the left board is connected too, the bulb is dim.

Both driver boards have all new caps, doubled and triple checked for correct polarity, TR801 and TR802 have been replaced with KSC945CG and KSC1845. I’ve included pics of both, I’ve been wrong before on the orentation.

Since the left driver board works, I’ve installed the remaining transistors that have not been replaced from the left board to the right board one at a time to see if the short disappears on the right board but no change. So far i've swapped from the left to the right, TR805, TR806, TR804, and TR803. So it appears that the transistors on the right driver board are good? This is what i'm unsure of and not sure of what steps to take next.

Reflowed all joints, checked for continuity, tested everything for anything that is shorted with compenent still soldered in the board (didn't find anything OL), and as always looking for cracks.

Thank you so much! From the little that i've heard in my test speakers out in the garage, this receiver is going to sound amazing.
 

Attachments

  • Driver F-1315.jpg
    Driver F-1315.jpg
    68.7 KB · Views: 45
  • Driver Back 2.jpg
    Driver Back 2.jpg
    89.6 KB · Views: 43
  • Driver Back 1.jpg
    Driver Back 1.jpg
    101.6 KB · Views: 43
  • TR802.jpg
    TR802.jpg
    99.9 KB · Views: 42
  • TR801.jpg
    TR801.jpg
    109.4 KB · Views: 43
  • Sche.png
    Sche.png
    479.8 KB · Views: 43
  • F-1315.png
    F-1315.png
    570.8 KB · Views: 45
Register to hide this ad
One step forward and two back, found my problem, the trimpot VR802 was turned up too high. I'm now able to set the bias to 30mA for both left and right channel but now the left channel has no audio. With my phone connected to main in, and if I switch the left driver board to the right side I get no sound on the right channel.

So it's looking like I have a problem on the left driver board now, good lord, this receiver just keeps on giving.

I have the scope out, but i'm not very good at reading the schematics am I correct that the signal coming into the driver board is at R801? So if I start at R801 I could trace to see were the signal drops out? Am I on the right path here? or is my problem somewhere else? Would the SCR mod do anything?


Sche.png
 
You are correct, the signal comes in on R801. It's then into the base and out of the collector of TR802, then into the base and out of the collector of TR803, then into the bases of TR805 and TR806, and out of their collectors to the bases of the output devices. R808 looks like it may be a fuse resistor. Check to see that it hasn't gone open. On further inspection, I'm not so sure its a fuse resistor, but you should check in anyway.
 
Well it was bound to happen, I think I’m on hour 8 of working on this and I put in TR805 and TR806 in backwards, put the PNP where the NPN should have gone, and shorted them on the left driver board, thankfully I was hooked up to the dim bulb tester, and the bulb goes dim when I pull the board, so hopefully the only damage is just the fried TR805 and TR806 but I'll check everything. So at this point I’m going to rebuild both boards with new transistors and any resistors that might have gotten fried.

I did measure R808 on the right board with one leg air gapped and it read 33k. I also tested R821, R820, R818, R819, R807, R810, R811, and R817 which are within one level of the output transistors which originally was shorted, and no dice, they are all tested good.

I did confirm with the scope that signal was getting to the driver boards, below is what the scope looks like at R801

R801.jpg

Then at at R801 but the other side that is connected to C801

R801 2.jpg

Then the other side of C801

C801.jpg

So is that a good indicator that maybe R801 is bad? I have followed it down and even to the collector on TR806 and TR805 and it looks worse, I can't even see the wave because it's off the screen. Well regardless I always enjoy using the scope, i'll get the order placed and hopefully with me rebuilding the board will resolve my problem. Thank you @Jefft91 was able to figure out the signal path with your directions.
 
Last edited:
I'd look at TR801 as the cause of that distortion since the other two components connected to that node are passive. It wouldn't hurt to check the resistor and cap as well, though. Looks like you're making progress. Don't feel bad about getting those transistors swapped. It happens. Did both devices go bad?
 
Retested TR806 and TR805 with my peak transistor tester this morning and they both passed, but in checking everything that TR806 and TR805 is directly connected too and found TR803 and TR804 are shorted, and in checking every component that they are connected to, I found C808 is showing 0.22nf. If I’m reading this right, this ceramic capacitor should be within 20% of 100pf and its reading 220pf, but beyond that, the resistors are right on the money where they should be and the two caps, C809, C806, I checked are as well. Oh well, thankfully the driver boards pull out, I love that about the sansui. Will place an order today to order the below which are pulled from the below BOM.

https://audiokarma.org/forums/index...recap-and-restore.807427/page-5#post-12254758

TR801 Transistor BJT 2sc711 (E or F) KSC945CG 4 CG C for ECB pinout and G hFE gain of 300 or so
Driver (two of them) TR802 Transistor BJT 2sc817R (F) KSC1845F 4
Driver (two of them) TR803 Transistor BJT 2sc627 (3) ZTX696 4 Will need a TO-92 heatsink
Driver (two of them) TR803 heatsink Transistor BJT 2sc627 (3) 532-575200B00 4 TO-92 heatsink for ZTX696
Driver (two of them) TR804 Transistor BJT 2SC984 C KSC2690A or KSC2383 4
Driver (two of them) TR805 Transistor BJT 2SC680 (B) MJE15032G 4
Driver (two of them) TR806 Transistor BJT 2SA566 (B) MJE15033G 4

R801 2 Resistor Carbon 10K 1/4W ---> 71-RN60D1002F/

C803,C808 4 Capacitor Ceramic 100 pF 50V ---> 81-RDE5C2A101J0M1H3A

As for the right board, I pulled TR801 and it tested at 10.04k, but i'll order a replacement just in case. I also tested C801 and it tested at 331nF. Since I'll be rebuilding the left channel, I’ll also do the same for the right one, after the rebuild I’ll see if I have the same problem. I'm really hoping that the transistors aren't working correctly when voltage is applied to them which I won't be able to tell with my peak tester, which would make sense considering this receiver was blowing fuses due to the right output transistor were blown, but I'm only guessing. Parts should hopefully be here by the end of this upcoming week. As always thank you for your insight @Jefft91
 
I'm no expert! . . . followed @dlucy 's and @MIJ_Pioneer 's helpful restoration threads, but have been struggling with a 7000 dim-bulb short myself for a month of Sundays. Can't say I've had success yet, but I'll share what I can.

First, a pic of the solder side of my driver boards (F1315), for comparison. Solder on one of your original TR805's looked a little sketch, but I think you've already replaced those. I couldn't see any obvious differences (other than the bypass cap) or flaws, maybe someone with sharper eyes can.

P1010942.JPG

Second, (you may have already done this) testing/comparing driver board (F1315) voltages at the gang-slots may help in finding your short, faulty components, or at least lead to the trace or another component board where the problem lies. Do this very carefully, of course . . . despite using mini-grabbers, I shorted one of my TR804's this way ; (

BEWARE, schematic labeling for the F1315's connections through the gang-slot is INCORRECT.

In searching for my short, I modified a PDF file of the F1315 section of the schematic to capture/organize all the information (too many chess pieces to follow, and the miss-labeled gang-slot connections were not helping). You can see which transistors I used where and their pinouts (blue highlight), what voltages I measured (red ink, these were taken while the unit was still NOT working, so don't use them as reference!), schematic reference voltages (highlighted in green), and where connections went (highlighted in yellow). Incorrect gang-slot labels were crossed out and corrected.

Of course, any number of errors could have crept into my PDF, . . . (well, couldn't get actual PDF to download, doc-scan will have to do for now) . . . , but it may help.

Hmm . . . still not sure if image loaded correctly.
 

Attachments

Meanwhile . . . In searching for my dim-bulb short I was finding strange voltages popping up everywhere, but could never find an obvious faulty component, solder bridge, backwards-installed cap or trans. I found a few minor things, but they did not fix the problem.

Here, @Hyperion 's oft-repeated advice about those pesky SCR's finally sunk in. And while the SCR circuit on my 7000 was working correctly BEFORE I started this restoration, that hardly matters.

If the SCR circuit isn't working (or rather, is working) and is shunting the power supply for the outputs to ground (because of some other fault affecting those outputs), it makes it really hard to find the real source of the problem. Disconnect that sucker while troubleshooting (remove wires from 9A and 9B tabs on F1317 board and tape so you don't accidentally short to something else), or turn VR's 901 and 902 on the F1317 board way up to decrease the SCR circuit's sensitivity.

At least, that is what I THINK I have learned the hard way about SCR circuits . . . I could be way off base in my understanding, and welcome further expert edification.

Of course, using the dim-bulb tester and pulling your output transistors always a really good idea!

Hope this helps!
 
Sorry for the delay, I was waiting on parts and honestly, I just needed a break. Parts are here and I’ve rebuilt the left board and now I have sound in both channels :confused:, I’m not sure what the problem is but it appears that it’s fixed but tomorrow I will do more test and since I have all brand new transistors on the left board I will do the same for the right so they match.

Now I bought replacement metal resistors just in case, if I were to swap out all the resistors to metal for both driver boards will that throw things off if the rest the receiver are still carbon? I’ve read that the feedback loop is on this driver board so wouldn’t it in theory, the new resistors lower the noise on the driver that would mean less distortion? I don’t really know; I’m just guessing but would like to know from the experts if it’s worth doing, if not i'll just leave it alone for now, but I am curious, and it should go without saying but this would be done after it's been confirmed there are no problems with the receiver.

@subgenius Thank you! Both of your posts are a huge help. The picture I originally posted, the solder side no longer looks like that since I’ve desoldered and resoldered the entire board, but I did take a look at TR805 and its not shorting any of its neighbors doing a continuity test. It was a game changer when I got a desoldering gun. The braid would have just taken too long but I’ve rebuild 3 or 4 receivers with just the braid so it’s doable for sure.

I love how you wrote the readings on the schematics, I normally just make a list and then write it on a piece of paper but I like how you can see the flow with actual readings so I’ll be stealing this for future troubleshooting! ;) Regarding the SCR mod, I was unsure of which cables to disconnect, from what I’ve read the wording, to me, appeared to be vague, but I will disconnect those two wires to make sure there are no future problems.

I took tomorrow off to rebuild the second board and will be running it through the ringer to make sure no channels cut out or any other problems, so hopefully I’ll have good news tomorrow!
 
Glad my schematic 'tweak' helped (and sorry couldn't get the actual modifiable PDF to load for you, but you got the idea). Sometimes there are just too many things to follow to be able to visualize what is happening where. I got tired of switching back and forth from schematic--to diagram--to parts list--forgetting where I was. I used to write with colored pens on a printed copy of the schematic, but it was always too small and dense to see. Blowing sections of the schem up BIG, helped a lot. And sometimes I print out a mirror of the diagram so it is easier to locate parts without getting my head turned around.

If your SCR is working, nothing wrong with leaving it connected . . . just a lot easier finding shorts with it (temporarily) disabled.

Good luck!
 
Back
Top Bottom