Sansui BA-5000 output Transformers

[Plimpington2]

I am in the market for a power amp to go with my CA-3000. The 2000, 3000 and 5000 are obvious choices. In fact, I have a line on a 5000 close to me. But I note that having reviewed the schematic, this has output transformers in it. I imagine the concept here is the same as those used in McIntosh - to better match the output impedance. Fine. But here is the thing - I have listened to many McIntosh pieces, and I invariably find I like the sound of the units that couple the output directly the speakers much more than those that use the autoformers. I wonder if this is likely to translate into me liking the sound of the BA-3000 more than the 5000. Are these essentially "autoformers"?

 

[Hyperion]

Are these essentially "autoformers"?

The BA-5000 does use an Autoformer setup, so you are correct.

(Post edited)

 

[Plimpington2]

If my speakers are an easy and nominal 8 ohm load, is there any reason to believe that the 5000 is really giving me anything that the 3000 does not give me? Other than a hernia, that is . . .

 

[Hyperion]

If my speakers are an easy and nominal 8 ohm load, is there any reason to believe that the 5000 is really giving me anything that the 3000 does not give me? Other than a hernia, that is . . .

No, I don't think so, it will probably come down to how each one sounds to you. I think you should do all you can to audition the two models just to be on the safe side.

 

[Sansuiman]

I settled on a CA/BA-3000 combo years ago, and have been quite satisfied with the way it sounds. At 170WPC @ 8Ω, I have never had any issues with lack of adequate power from the BA-3000. I've not had an opportunity to audition a BA-5000, either in my own system or elsewhere, so cannot speak to how it sounds in comparison.

As much as I'd like to own one, the 3000 has fit my needs quite well enough that I'm no longer actively looking for a 5000. Of course, if the right opportunity presented itself, I'd probably pickup a 5000 yet, but it would have to be local, in good condition (many BA-5000's one will find available are badly beat up and abused from DJ'ing and commercial sound reinforcement use), and priced far better the current market condition dictate.

 

[Hyperion]

I am the other way round, I have listened to a BA-5000 (and restored it), but I have not heard a BA-3000. I can say that the BA-5000 easily gives the feeling and impression of the prodigious output power available. This is something which I haven't experienced to such an extent from any of the many top-flight Sansui's I have listened to. Perhaps not too surprising since none of the 'many' had higher power output than the BA-5000. (i.e. not including a G-22000 or G-33000).

Update:
My B-2102 - can deliver 242wpc into 8Ω just before clipping. - but that is not a sustained rating, spec' is 200wpc.

 

[Plimpington2]

No, I don't think so, it will probably come down to how each one sounds to you. I think you should do all you can to audition the two models just to be on the safe side.

I would be grateful if you would delete the post quote which was wrong and I have corrected the original.

I have done so. Thank you much.

 

[Plimpington2]

I settled on a CA/BA-3000 combo years ago, and have been quite satisfied with the way it sounds. At 170WPC @ 8Ω, I have never had any issues with lack of adequate power from the BA-3000. I've it had an opportunity to audition a BA-5000, either in my own system or elsewhere, so cannot speak to how it sounds in comparison.

As much as I'd like to own one, the 3000 has fit my needs quite well enough that I'm no longer actively looking for a 5000. Of course, if the right opportunity presented itself, I'd probably pickup a 5000 yet, but it would have to be local, in good condition (many BA-5000's one will find available are badly beat up and abused from DJ'ing and commercial sound reinforcement use), and priced far better the current market condition dictate.

I have a 5000 close to me for $3000 in very nice condition. I am tempted. Especially since I do not seem to see as many 3000's pop up. My dilemma is acute. I have a CA-3000 which is a project. I do my own work, so that is fine. BUT, I also have access to a 20,000 that I can get for $2500. And given what I am going to have to lay out for either a BA-3000 or a BA-5000, I am of two minds now. . . .

 

[DB-7]

I have a 5000 close to me for $3000 in very nice condition. I am tempted. Especially since I do not seem to see as many 3000's pop up. My dilemma is acute. I have a CA-3000 which is a project. I do my own work, so that is fine. BUT, I also have access to a 20,000 that I can get for $2500. And given what I am going to have to lay out for either a BA-3000 or a BA-5000, I am of two minds now. . . .

Where are you located that BA-5000's sell for 3k and are more plentiful than BA-3000's?

3k might get you a very beat up BA-5000 that doesn't work in North America.

 

[Sansuiman]

A BA-5000 in good condition for $3k is practically a no brainer to purchase. I've seen BA-3000's sell for that much. While my listening habits have never been needful of amplifier power exceeding 150WPC, I do have a B-2101 and a B-2301, so have the 200 and 300WPC class covered as well. Neither can be run to anywhere near their full potential, as my listening space is not huge, nor my speakers inefficient, so even at half of their usable output power would be painfully loud.

The AU-20000 Is very nice, but as it is just a CA/BA-3000 combined in one box, I consider it a bit of a compromise, and it is certainly no fun to work on. I'd opt for the separates, given a choice.

 

[Plimpington2]

I am the other way round, I have listened to a BA-5000 (and restored it), but I have not heard a BA-3000. I can say that the BA-5000 easily gives the feeling and impression of the prodigious output power available. This is something which I haven't experienced to such an extent from any of the many top-flight Sansui's I have listened to. Perhaps not too surprising since none of the 'many' had higher power output than the BA-5000. (i.e. not including a G-22000 or G-33000).

Update:
My B-2102 - can deliver 242wpc into 8Ω just before clipping.

Ah, so you have a B2102. Does that mean you also have the C2102 (or something in that line)? Do you have any experience with the alpha series? I have just purchased a a907dr, and am very curious to hear how the late 80's/mid 90's units sound.

 

[Plimpington2]

A BA-5000 in good condition for $3k is practically a no brainer to purchase. I've seen BA-3000's sell for that much. While my listening habits have never been needful of amplifier power exceeding 150WPC, I do have a B-2101 and a B-2301, so have the 200 and 300WPC class covered as well. Neither can be run to anywhere near their full potential, as my listening space is not huge, nor my speakers inefficient, so even at half of their usable output power would be painfully loud.

The AU-20000 Is very nice, but as it is just a CA/BA-3000 combined in one box, I consider it a bit of a compromise, and it is certainly no fun to work on. I'd opt for the separates, given a choice.

It seems to me that the 20000 preamp section is not quite a CA-3000, but the amplifier section looks identical. Whether the differences in the preamp make any difference is a different question.

 

[Sansuiman]

There are a couple of compromises made in terms of omitted features on the AU-20000. I don't recall exactly what they are now, but as I said, I'd personally still prefer the separate pre and power amps, over the integrated. Admittedly, that is partly due to my preference for more components, and the larger meters of the BA-3000, which are rather superficial reasons. Relative ease of service is also a factor that shouldn't be overlooked.

 

[Plimpington2]

Where are you located that BA-5000's sell for 3k and are more plentiful than BA-3000's?

3k might get you a very beat up BA-5000 that doesn't work in North America.

Eh, I don't know. I think the prices have come down of late. You can see a BA-5000 go on ebay on November for $4000. And also in November a CA-3000/BA-5000 combo went for $5300. In any event, there is a single owner BA-5000 available on USAudiomart for $3300 as we speak. Looks to be immaculate condition. WITH original box. It's 90 minutes from me. SOMEONE BUY IT SO I DON'T HAVE TO!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[johnny_fever]

I waited years before I found a local CA-3000 & BA-5000. What a presentation in size and beauty. I personally thought it sounded great. I would go for the BA-5K. But I'm crazy So my advise might not be the best.

 

[Plimpington2]

I wanted years before I found a local CA-3000 & BA-5000. What a presentation in size and beauty. I personally thought it sounded great. I would go for the BA-5K. But I'm crazy So my advise might not be the best.

One can get 2000’s all day long for $1000 to $1400 and i think a 3000 for about $2000. That’s more my speed right now.

 

[jefferylhenr]

At normal listening levels, I like the detail and smoothness of my BA-3000 over my BA-5000 and both went through extensive restorations. The BA-5000 is also extremely heavy to the point of injury trying to move it about. Last summer I restored a B-1 Yamaha, M6000 Luxman and the Sansui BA-5000 so have my fill of heavyweight amplifiers.

However, not liking the sound of a McIntosh with autoformers, isn’t a logical basis to expect the Sansui implementation to sound similar

 

[Sansuiman]

@jefferylhenr, it is somewhat reassuring to hear that. I've never felt the BA-3000 was lacking anything - at least for my needs - but certainly understand the high power monster amps have their applications. I'm almost embarrassed to own a B-2301, as it never gets to stretch it's legs.

 

[Hyperion]

Ah, so you have a B2102. Does that mean you also have the C2102 (or something in that line)? Do you have any experience with the alpha series? I have just purchased a a907dr, and am very curious to hear how the late 80's/mid 90's units sound.

Yes, I do have a C-2102 to partner the B-2102 (both fully restored by me) - they are very, very good together. Also I do have experience of the 'α' line, I own an AU-α907MR, and have experience of the AU-X711 (which is an early alpha), and also the AU-α907 Limited.

Also have experience of the B-2301L and C-2301, - listened to, and restored both. (IIRC I didn't really stretch the legs of the 'B' - too precious).

 

[SansuiSteve]

Been listening to my 5K for a couple of years now. Driving a set of Infinity 8.1 Kappa-II's. While I never need the full throttle power the idea that every once in a while a piece will require some headroom without clipping keeps me into the larger amps. As for the AU20K's I really like being able to pair PreAmp / Amp sets individually. Since I am not space limited, the more the merrier. Using a Yamaha C4 right now and aside from the heat generation it is a fine front end for the 5K.

Steve