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Sansui Speaker Wives Tale Exposed

minkybut

minkybut

AK Member
I have heard so many people post on here that the reason the giant 15 inch and larger Sansui Kabuki speakers lack bass is because their cabinet size is too small. I always thought that was or had to be the issue also. Well sorry, I'm here to tell you it ain't so. I just finished spending a lot of time and money proving it once and for all. I purchased all the drivers for a Sansui SP-5500X and the xo's and loaded those components into an old speaker cab, well braced size 24x15x29 which is quite larger than the stock cab size for Kabuki Sansui's. The result, no more bass at all than when in original cabs. I did think they sounded better overall, a little smoother slightly warmer...maybe, but no more bass. Now certainly I'm not saying all Sansui speakers are bass deficient, but I think I done a good job putting that "too small of a cabinet" theory to rest with the Kabuki Sansui's. Oh, they are quite loud and efficient.
 
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It would be nice to see pictures of both the encloures. Building enclosures does involve spending a lot of time and money., not to mention drivers and crossover parts.
 
Hmmm; I had the just the opposite experience when I did the same thing to a pair of 3500's. The improvement in bass was quite noticable. The new enclosures were a tad over 4 cu ft.
 
Well, I guess the Sansui woofers I used could be shot or stiff from age and not moving like they should be. Thing is I took those woofers out and put in a unknown in one speaker and a Radio Shack 15 in the other and they sounded quite good. Especially the RS and that was using all the other Sansui components except the woofers of course.
 
Measuring the T-S parameters for the woofer in question and modeling various boxes and alignments will afford more insight for less sweat equity. Simply measuring Fs (which requires only a sine wave generator or appropriate sound card s/w and a meter - and can be estimated pretty darned well by ear!) of the woofer in question in free space will give pretty good insight as to what its LF capability is.

The too small cabinet results in a relatively high Qtc, which will put a "hump" of several dB in the midbass - the classic disco thump. This was almost certainly a deliberate design decision by Sansui's speaker engineers... but who knows?
 
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I was going to take my old pair and throw them into/ontop of a pair of VOTT's. I unfortunately sold them before I got to do that....c'est la vie
 
No I didn't, I stated that I'm not saying all Sansui speakers are bass deficient. and thats not attitude, its what I said.
 
minkybut said:
I have heard so many people post on here that the reason the giant 15 inch and larger Sansui Kabuki speakers lack bass is because their cabinet size is too small. I always thought that was or had to be the issue also. Well sorry, I'm here to tell you it ain't so. I just finished spending a lot of time and money proving it once and for all. I purchased all the drivers for a Sansui SP-5500X and the xo's and loaded those components into an old speaker cab, well braced size 24x15x29 which is quite larger than the stock cab size for Kabuki Sansui's. The result, no more bass at all than when in original cabs. I did think they sounded better overall, a little smoother slightly warmer...maybe, but no more bass. Now certainly I'm not saying all Sansui speakers are bass deficient, but I think I done a good job putting that "too small of a cabinet" theory to rest with the Kabuki Sansui's. Oh, they are quite loud and efficient.
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The same has been said of Mach One speakers. A few people, including myself, have adjusted the cabinets for more volume, or added onto the cabinet to increase volume. The results? Improved bottom end. Deeper and better defined. However, keep in mind that drivers do have limitations and even installing them in larger cabinets doesn't guarantee sonic improvement. In fact you could go the opposite direction if in fact the drivers were designed for the cabinet size.

The other thing is the T/S specs, which were brought up. These help with box size, type (ported or sealed), and if ported the size and length of that port. I admire the geniuses who had the time and patience to do this without the benefit of the software we can purchase today to run on something as simple as a laptop computer. They likely did the math in their heads or used slide rules (if anyone here can remember those).

I wouldn't take offense to any of the comments, just keep in mind you may need to perform more experimentation than simply using a larger box as the size and type are part and parcel.

I have a set of 3500 speakers and a pair of Pioneer CS-99 I've thought about tinkering with, but I'll need to look at T/S parameters first, which I'm hoping to perform myself after purchasing TADS from PE. I would build new enclosures as I'm not about to ruin these cabinets, which are in near mint condition.
 
I'm not experienced in speaker design (understatement), but my understanding is that even if the cabinet is bigger but not the correct size for the woofer, you won't get good bass.
 
minkybut said:
I have heard so many people post on here that the reason the giant 15 inch and larger Sansui Kabuki speakers lack bass is because their cabinet size is too small. I always thought that was or had to be the issue also. Well sorry, I'm here to tell you it ain't so. I just finished spending a lot of time and money proving it once and for all. I purchased all the drivers for a Sansui SP-5500X and the xo's and loaded those components into an old speaker cab, well braced size 24x15x29 which is quite larger than the stock cab size for Kabuki Sansui's. The result, no more bass at all than when in original cabs. I did think they sounded better overall, a little smoother slightly warmer...maybe, but no more bass. Now certainly I'm not saying all Sansui speakers are bass deficient, but I think I done a good job putting that "too small of a cabinet" theory to rest with the Kabuki Sansui's. Oh, they are quite loud and efficient.
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The most significant factors in terms of lack of deep bass response with these speakers are woofer xmas and fs. You could put these woofers in a 10 cu. ft. box and they would still lack deep bass response.
 
Dammit. When I see a thread about "Wives' Tails Exposed," I expect to see a whole different kind of thread. :(
 
Did you measure output of old vs new cabinet?
With the advent of T/S parameters, old wives really have nothing to do with cabinet/driver matching.
 
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minkybut said:
I have heard so many people post on here that the reason the giant 15 inch and larger Sansui Kabuki speakers lack bass is because their cabinet size is too small. I always thought that was or had to be the issue also. Well sorry, I'm here to tell you it ain't so. I just finished spending a lot of time and money proving it once and for all. I purchased all the drivers for a Sansui SP-5500X and the xo's and loaded those components into an old speaker cab, well braced size 24x15x29 which is quite larger than the stock cab size for Kabuki Sansui's. The result, no more bass at all than when in original cabs. I did think they sounded better overall, a little smoother slightly warmer...maybe, but no more bass. Now certainly I'm not saying all Sansui speakers are bass deficient, but I think I done a good job putting that "too small of a cabinet" theory to rest with the Kabuki Sansui's. Oh, they are quite loud and efficient.
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You can get a nice tight punchy bass from the Sansuis. I run the sp7500x with the 16" woofers. Look at the ridge around the woofer, there is not really any xtra material left for much woofer movement. You can eq some powerfull low end, but nothing like other speakers with the fatter surrounds. I love mine with the 9090db!
 
I had some minty 3500's my dad bought new and gave me years ago. They had crap bass that many good 8" 2 ways will kill, nasty honking mid range and screechy highs. They had nice cabinets though. The new owner paid dearly for them so IMHO they are great speakers :D Look at the xmax on these and the cab design. Crap driver in a crap box config means crap bass output. Sorry, just the truth.

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I've never had issue with the bass of Kabuki speakers. I don't expect 20HZ response with their cabinet and efficiency. But, there are some fundamental laws of acoustics and all things being equal, a larger cabinet will result in lower bass response.
 
nclh77 said:
I've never had issue with the bass of Kabuki speakers. I don't expect 20HZ response with their cabinet and efficiency. But, there are some fundamental laws of acoustics and all things being equal, a larger cabinet will result in lower bass response.
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I haven't put my 3500's to test against my other speakers but I know with certainty they will loose in the bottom end dept. handily against my HPM-100 speakers. But, that doesn't mean they don't have bottom end, just tighter and not so deep. For me, not an issue with some music.
 
kfa888 said:
I had some minty 3500's my dad bought new and gave me years ago. They had crap bass that many good 8" 2 ways will kill, nasty honking mid range and screechy highs. They had nice cabinets though. The new owner paid dearly for them so IMHO they are great speakers :D Look at the xmax on these and the cab design. Crap driver in a crap box config means crap bass output. Sorry, just the truth.

752510419_qxbrH-L.jpg


752510410_P6Zzm-S.jpg
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Your Dad bought the sansuis new and gave them to you and you sold them, I would have ditched the Vega's 1st. with the flabby 20mm xmax
 
j31088 said:
Your Dad bought the sansuis new and gave them to you and you sold them, I would have ditched the Vega's 1st. with the flabby 20mm xmax
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Your point? And are you talking about my Vegas or yours? mine went down the road too. Part of the learning and trading up experience for me. Not knocking them for anyone else. If you like them fantastic, were not for me.
 
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