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Sanyo TP 825D Cartridge RE: Tracking Force: will Shure m91ed work?

R. Mallow

R. Mallow

New Member
Hi All,

I apologize if I'm posting in the wrong forum or otherwise breaking rules. I tried my best to research the topic before posting, then to pick the right forum once I couldn't answer the question on my own. Also, I'm a total rookie, so these questions might just be dumb.

My Dual 1019 died recently and I managed to find a great deal on a Sanyo TP 825D, which I read was a very solid turntable. The problem is, the Sanyo is missing a headshell, cartridge, and stylus. I had thought it might be possible to buy a new headshell and remount my old Shure m91ed cartridge for the Sanyo set up. I'm not quite sure now, though. I looked on vinylengine and it looks like the Sanyo should be set at 2-2.5g tracking force, which is significantly higher than what I've read for the Shure m91ed cartridge--that comes in at like .75-1.5g recommended, I think.

But with that said, I really don't know what I'm doing. I could totally be misreading the situation. So, I ultimately have three questions, but they're related:

-Can the Shure m91ed be used on the Sanyo? I loved the way it sounded on my Dual, but I dunno if it's feasible or if the sound will/can be preserved.

-If the cartridge can be used but needs adjustments, can someone point me to where I can learn more about what needs to be done? Or, if you're feeling particularly generous, give me any direct pointers?

-BONUS: I have read a number of recommendations for cartridges to pair with the Sanyo failing the m91ed option, but can someone explain how one might know or guess that a cartridge would be a good match without seeing someone explicitly suggest it? Like what specs do you look for to determine compatibility? This one may be the topic for another thread, so apologies and please ignore it if so.

Thank you a million in advance for helping me with my laughable paucity of turntable knowledge.
 
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R. Mallow said:
Hi All,

I apologize if I'm posting in the wrong forum or otherwise breaking rules. I tried my best to research the topic before posting, then to pick the right forum once I couldn't answer the question on my own. Also, I'm a total rookie, so these questions might just be dumb.

My Dual 1019 died recently and I managed to find a great deal on a Sanyo TP 825D, which I read was a very solid turntable. The problem is, the Sanyo is missing a headshell, cartridge, and stylus. I had thought it might be possible to buy a new headshell and remount my old Shure m91ed cartridge for the Sanyo set up. I'm not quite sure now, though. I looked on vinylengine and it looks like the Sanyo should be set at 2-2.5g tracking force, which is significantly higher than what I've read for the Shure m91ed cartridge--that comes in at like .75-1.5g recommended, I think.

But with that said, I really don't know what I'm doing. I could totally be misreading the situation. So, I ultimately have three questions, but they're related:

-Can the Shure m91ed be used on the Sanyo? I loved the way it sounded on my Dual, but I dunno if it's feasible or if the sound will/can be preserved.

-If the cartridge can be used but needs adjustments, can someone point me to where I can learn more about what needs to be done? Or, if you're feeling particularly generous, give me any direct pointers?

-BONUS: I have read a number of recommendations for cartridges to pair with the Sanyo failing the m91ed option, but can someone explain how one might know or guess that a cartridge would be a good match without seeing someone explicitly suggest it? Like what specs do you look for to determine compatibility? This one may be the topic for another thread, so apologies and please ignore it if so.

Thank you a million in advance for helping me with my laughable paucity of turntable knowledge.
Click to expand...

Welcome to the AK turn table forum.

Most of the information you need are in the owner's manual in particular Page # 2 - cartridge adjustment.
https://www.vinylengine.com/library/sanyo/tp-825d.shtml

The Shure M 91 ED cartridge should be an excellent match for the turn table.

Enjoy! :music:
 
Congrats on your Sanyo. Way overlooked table in my opinion, I had one and loved it, still one of my favs and looking for another one.
I had a Shure M97XE on mine and it was a great combo.
Enjoy the table.
 
Balifly said:
Welcome to the AK turn table forum.

Most of the information you need are in the owner's manual in particular Page # 2 - cartridge adjustment.
https://www.vinylengine.com/library/sanyo/tp-825d.shtml

The Shure M 91 ED cartridge should be an excellent match for the turn table.

Enjoy! :music:
Click to expand...
Thank you so much!

I looked through the manual and it cites .5-3.5g tracking force. How strange! When I looked at the main page from which you access the owner's manual, it lists 2-2.5g. I wonder why the inconsistency? In any case, it appears I can just set up using the cartridge's recommended specs--I'll probably go like 1.3g.

dudefromla said:
Congrats on your Sanyo. Way overlooked table in my opinion, I had one and loved it, still one of my favs and looking for another one.
I had a Shure M97XE on mine and it was a great combo.
Enjoy the table.
Click to expand...
Thank you, too!

I surely will enjoy it. I was about ready to murder my landlord for killing my trusty Dual (long story, but suffice it to say he's a total and complete schmuck) until I found this turntable on the cheap. I'm so glad to be getting back to vinyl; it's been a long 2 months.
 
The 2-2.5g spec is probably for the cartridge that the turntable was originally sold with. 1.25g is a great starting point for those older Shure's and that type of table, which BTW was made by a company known as CEC. They made a lot and rebranded for others.

Correct original headshells are available on eBay, look at some photos to get familiar before buying.
 
911s55 said:
The 2-2.5g spec is probably for the cartridge that the turntable was originally sold with. 1.25g is a great starting point for those older Shure's and that type of table, which BTW was made by a company known as CEC. They made a lot and rebranded for others.

Correct original headshells are available on eBay, look at some photos to get familiar before buying.
Click to expand...
Hm...I can't find any originals on ebay, nor does a google search reveal much to me. The picture of it seems to be of a certain shape, though, so I've been browsing to see if I can find a similar style. I am finding a number of other options for S-shaped tonearms, but I was under the impression that a large part of picking the headshell was the weight of the cartridge (5.5g in this case). Is that not right? What qualities should i be looking for? I'm a babe in the woods.
 
I have the same turntable. Here's the headshell that came with mine (I think it may be original).


1.jpg
 
These days there may be more refined or esoteric terms for them, but I have ways known those headshells as "standard bayonet mount". Virtually every Japanese turntable used them for what, 20 / 25 years? Generic headshells will work just fine be they metal or plastic. Any cartridge with 1/2" spaced mounting holes, which is pretty much all of them will fit and that includes P mounts provided they come with the adaptor.

I am a Shure fan and bought my first M91ED in 1973 for $24.99. There are several still in my possession although if I ever gifted a turntable to a friend, it went with an M91ED. They are very good cartridges and still desirable to this day. A side benefit, in my opinion anyway, is that even a cheap generic EVG stylus sounds good on them. Or more accurately, sounds good to me. But I please easily.
 
Some time ago I uploaded the owner's manual to vinyl engine. A handy feature is a built-in overhang gauge on the plinth, located between the speed selection buttons! Pretty cool. One of the illustrations in the manual shows the same headshell, so good eye 911. I never noticed that before.

Honestly I haven't used my 825D much, but couldn't pass it up for (wait...$2!) Looking through both the owner's and service manuals, I don't see any specs for the effective mass of the tonearm. Probably in the solid medium range? I'd think that a wide variety of cartridges might match up with the arm, with the exception being anything with a very high compliance. As other's have pointed out, the M91 would be a great place to start. The EVG stylus is one of the best bang for the bucks out there.
 
saunadog said:
I have the same turntable. Here's the headshell that came with mine (I think it may be original).


View attachment 992021
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That is the original head shell, the TP 825D's for sale on the bay right now all have no or replacement head shells except for the where the guys asking 200.00 for his.
To show you how the market has changed I paid 40.00 for mine 3 yrs ago.
 
R. Mallow said:
I looked through the manual and it cites .5-3.5g tracking force. How strange! When I looked at the main page from which you access the owner's manual, it lists 2-2.5g. I wonder why the inconsistency? In any case, it appears I can just set up using the cartridge's recommended specs--I'll probably go like 1.3g.
Click to expand...

This is because the Vinyl Engine page and Service Manual are relating what was a common way to sell turntables, with a specific cartridge. If you look at the parts list it actually says what one, the MG-35v. That sounds like a Shure # but the little pictogram looks like an Audio Technica. I am sure it was an AT, but rebranded Sanyo.

The owner's manual however does not indicate a specific cartridge hence the difference.

Often turntables in a certain market or for a time included a cartridge but otherwise did not. I can see how it could be confusing.
 
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Thanks for your input, everyone! I ended up going with a cheap headshell because I think basically my system isn't good enough for it to make too much difference. I tried to find a fairly standard weight, though.

BUT...the TT got here today and it's missing a counterweight! I guess this is why you can't trust online buying. Anyone know if other weights are compatible? As far as I can tell it just has to be one of those slip on heads. At this point I could return it--the seller was close by, so shipping was cheap. But if I can just throw on any weight and have it work just as well, I would just as soon invest another 15 bucks or so to get it working.

saunadog said:
I have the same turntable. Here's the headshell that came with mine (I think it may be original).


View attachment 992021
Click to expand...

Do you know, also, whether the back of the tonearm (like the bit that holds the counterweight) slopes down slightly? I am suspecting this thing might have another problem, that is, it's bent. In which case I'll definitely return because I think it'll reach the point of diminishing returns.
 
Yes that downward slope at the back of the tonearm is strangely correct.

I know what I would do about the missing counter weight but it's your deal.

Finding the correct original is ideal. A non original replacement needs/should be the same weight and the inner diameter needs to match that of the back of the tonearm not just go on loose or tight. Might not be a worthwhile task because now in the end you could end up with a low/mid fi table with the incorrect headshell and counterweight. These things turn many of us off when we are flipping gear around to sell etc. Your call.
 
Might be worth an e-mail or phone call to Audio Proz in Watertown. MA. They sell salvaged parts and I just saw on their website that they invite inquiry's about turntable counterweight availability. I live in Western Canada and bought turntables parts from them twice that I couldn't find elsewhere.

Might also be worth finding out if that Sanyo went by a different make/model. If it was made by CEC, maybe it has a doppelganger. Might double the chances of finding it.

EDIT: That same arm might be on different models. Yours is a belt drive? Maybe there's a direct drive counterpart.
 
That's a bummer about the missing counter weight. The CW on the 825D looks kind of unique, from the front it almost resembles a combination lock. Given that this particular Sanyo seems a bit rarer than say the TP 1012/20/30 or even the TP-626, finding an original might be quite hard.

FYI, I just checked mine out. The CW weighs 3.3 oz, and the inner diameter looks to be around 12mm. I suppose of you can find something close, you could use it and just set tracking force with a digital scale.

Funny about the droop at the back of the tonearm - mine doesn't droop at all. :dunno:
 
911s55 said:
Yes that downward slope at the back of the tonearm is strangely correct.

I know what I would do about the missing counter weight but it's your deal.

Finding the correct original is ideal. A non original replacement needs/should be the same weight and the inner diameter needs to match that of the back of the tonearm not just go on loose or tight. Might not be a worthwhile task because now in the end you could end up with a low/mid fi table with the incorrect headshell and counterweight. These things turn many of us off when we are flipping gear around to sell etc. Your call.
Click to expand...

Hmm yea, sounds like it may be worth cutting my losses. However...

62vauxhall said:
Might be worth an e-mail or phone call to Audio Proz in Watertown. MA. They sell salvaged parts and I just saw on their website that they invite inquiry's about turntable counterweight availability. I live in Western Canada and bought turntables parts from them twice that I couldn't find elsewhere.

Might also be worth finding out if that Sanyo went by a different make/model. If it was made by CEC, maybe it has a doppelganger. Might double the chances of finding it.

EDIT: That same arm might be on different models. Yours is a belt drive? Maybe there's a direct drive counterpart.
Click to expand...

Interesting, it's a direct drive, but the notion that there might be a doppelgänger is definitely worth investigating.

In any case, I emailed Audio Proz a moment ago. I'll keep y'all posted on what happens, but at this stage it's looking like I may just abandon ship. Plus there's a JVC QL-Y5F with a Shure M105E cartridge selling locally for a okay deal (currently) that I suspect will come down in price and be a highly desirable option if this falls through. I'm not going to be flipping the TT, though, probably. Basically I'm just a grad student on a budget who is of the opinion that there is no finer relaxation after reading a few hundred pages of textbook than throwing on a Tartini composition in luscious vinyl reproduction. Yrstrly likes to unwind as luxuriously as being basically broke allows.
 
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