Schiit Audio Vidar Question

NeilBEN

Well-Known Member
Hi folks, I have had a B&K ST-140 since about 1986, and I love the way it sounds. But it has started showing its age - and I have posted on a thread here, about recapping it. Which I have done, and now it sounds better than ever, with better bass, to go along with its outstanding open and clear midrange and highs.

That being said, I got a Schiit Audio Vidar almost 2 years ago, and it is an excellent amp. Since updating the ST-140, I have been using both amps with an active digital crossover - the Vidar on the woofers, and the ST-140 on the tweeters.

That was a stellar combination. I now have done an analog crossover (with a revision coming), so I have once again been able to use just one amp. And in this setup, the B&K is the better sounding amp. The Vidar is a bit closed in sounding, with less midrange detail and dynamics - it sounds (too?) smooth and often flat & a bit dull and 2D. The highs are certainly still there, but it feels like it is either softer (both tonally and volume?) or there is a midrange "suckout".

To add to the issue, the ST-140 has been having issues with the left channel, which make it not "safe" to leave connected to the speaker. I am going to try and figure that out, and I have posted on that other thread. (https://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/b-k-st-140-recap-bom.816988/page-19#post-15063574)

MY QUESTION: can the Schiit Vidar have its bias tweaked safely - and would this open up the sound clarity in the upper mids and highs?

In their assembly video for the Vidar (starting at about 26:45), they set the bias between 0.40 and 0.50mV on each channel, so I would assume that setting it at close to 0.50mV on each channel that this would slightly affect the clarity, and still be safe within spec?


Other options of course, are other amps - maybe the Aegir, or an Audio by Van Alstine Vision SET 120 (https://avahifi.com/collections/power-amplifiers/products/vision-set-120-power-amplifier), or a couple of Vista Audio Sparks biamping the speakers?

My preamp is an Audible Illusions Modulus 3A. It is rated at Output impedance: 1.2k ohms (main), 150 ohms (tape). Should I look at the output impedance of this vs the input impedance of the Vidar - which is 22k ohms SE, 44k ohms balanced? The B&K ST-140 input impedance is rated at 24.3k ohms, which seems fairly close to the Vidar?

My speakers are mass loaded transmission line - 4 ohm and quite sensitive - the woofers are 92dB at 2.83V, and the tweeters are Linaeum TLS, which are very even impedance of about 7.3 ohm all the way across their spectrum. (https://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/mass-loaded-transmission-line-speakers.970929/)
 
Last edited:
Register to hide this ad
You can't hear a .1mV change in bias, and you don't know better than Schiits engineers. Leave it alone, bad things could happen.

If you don't like how it sounds, just get something else. Lots of options out there.
 
Last edited:
Okay, thanks for the help!

There would be a reason that the spec is between 0.4mV and 0.5mV - below 0.4mV would sound different.

Any thoughts on the impedance matching to the Modulus?
 
It might be as simple as the Vidar does not like the up stream electronics.

Not every Pre- goes with every amp.

Right, that is certainly possible, and is why I mentioned the preamp. I just edited my post to include the output impedance of the Audible Illusions Modulus (1.2kOhm), and the input impedance of the Vidar (22k ohms SE, 44k ohms balanced).
 
Okay, thanks for the help!

There would be a reason that the spec is between 0.4mV and 0.5mV - below 0.4mV would sound different.

Any thoughts on the impedance matching to the Modulus?
Right, but anything higher doesn't because it is biased into Class AB at that point. We would just be getting closer to Class A and amp meltdown.
 
Sure, that's how I understand it. I think there is a bit of ground in between at the high side of the spec range, and overheating.

In the process of recapping my B&K ST-140, I also rebiased it - both channels were way over spec. One was about 40% over, and the other was about 2X what it was supposed to be. It had drifted a long way in the 34+ years I have had it, and the heat sink has gone from anodized black to a purplish magenta. It sounded great, but it sure runs a lot cooler now that I readjusted it. To think I left it on 24/7 for years ...
 
Late to the party, but two things. One, you have had the same amplifier for 35 years or so. You are married to that sound and anything that you replace it with will sound different to you. Most people view a difference like this as being inferior.

Two, a new amp takes a while to fully burn in. With a microscope, they can view this process on the capacitors which form tracing lines as they become broken in. I would say the Vidar takes over 150 hours to really get to its final sound.

But that said, every single component in the chain has a say on the final sound.
I’ve got the Vidar and with the Freya, it’s the best amp I’ve ever owned, SQ wise.

My history is with mostly mid Fi amps however, nothing over $2500 or so. YMMV.
 
I have got a lot of hours on my Vidar - either running full range while I repaired the ST-140, or as the amp driving the woofers. It has wonderful bass - better than the ST-140. And since I brought the right channel up to spec on the bias, it sounds better.

I may well end up with an Aegir instead of the Vidar? Or even possibly a Decware Zen? The resolution of my speakers has been a revelation - i.e. detail and dynamics and ease *without* excessive brightness.
 
I have got a lot of hours on my Vidar - either running full range while I repaired the ST-140, or as the amp driving the woofers. It has wonderful bass - better than the ST-140. And since I brought the right channel up to spec on the bias, it sounds better.

I may well end up with an Aegir instead of the Vidar? Or even possibly a Decware Zen? The resolution of my speakers has been a revelation - i.e. detail and dynamics and ease *without* excessive brightness.
I'm wondering if the Zen could properly drive 4ohm speakers. I don't know much about them. The sensitivity is fine otherwise.
 
It has a switch for speakers between 2-6 ohms, and 6-16 ohms. If it comes down to that, I would bridge a pair for monoblocks.

Another amp I would seriously consider is the AVA Vision SET 120. This is (probably) a lot like the ST-140 in sound quality, and on paper it "only" has 60 watts a channel into 8 ohms - that doubles into 4 ohms. At $900, it is another wonderful value.

https://avahifi.com/collections/power-amplifiers/products/vision-set-120-power-amplifier
 
After reading the whole thread, it sounds like the OP has a pretty good handle on things. I’ve heard lots of good things about those old B&K amps.

I am a little puzzled at the results with the Vidar’s closed in imaging though. With the Schiit Freya or even the Asgard as pre( with my best sounding speakers, Totem Arro), the sound has depth, height, and a “live” sound that draws you in. Maybe it takes the right pre?

But on the other hand I certainly haven’t heard everything out there, maybe I don’t know what I’m missing…

BTW, Schiit is releasing a brand new amp in a month or two, if things work out. Technology I’ve never heard of, based on some type of massive ‘choke’ that they say is their best sounding yet.

200 wpc, probably close to 2K per.
 
It has a switch for speakers between 2-6 ohms, and 6-16 ohms. If it comes down to that, I would bridge a pair for monoblocks.

Another amp I would seriously consider is the AVA Vision SET 120. This is (probably) a lot like the ST-140 in sound quality, and on paper it "only" has 60 watts a channel into 8 ohms - that doubles into 4 ohms. At $900, it is another wonderful value.

https://avahifi.com/collections/power-amplifiers/products/vision-set-120-power-amplifier
there are a lot of good reports on that amp.
 
After reading the whole thread, it sounds like the OP has a pretty good handle on things. I’ve heard lots of good things about those old B&K amps.

I am a little puzzled at the results with the Vidar’s closed in imaging though. With the Schiit Freya or even the Asgard as pre( with my best sounding speakers, Totem Arro), the sound has depth, height, and a “live” sound that draws you in. Maybe it takes the right pre?

But on the other hand I certainly haven’t heard everything out there, maybe I don’t know what I’m missing…

BTW, Schiit is releasing a brand new amp in a month or two, if things work out. Technology I’ve never heard of, based on some type of massive ‘choke’ that they say is their best sounding yet.

200 wpc, probably close to 2K per.

I am sure there are some factors possible, like match with the preamp. I have two Audible Illusions Modulus preamps - a 2C and a 3A. They are among the best I am aware of. Back when my M2C was needing new caps, and tube sockets, and had cooked the circuit board around the larger diode bridge - I was considering a Freya+. But it was backordered for about 12-16 weeks, so I looked for used Modulus units - and found the M3A for $1500.

I was able to confirm that my Vidar had the right channel under-biased. So, it got better when I matched the channels pretty closely right at the upper end of the factory recommended range, as I posted. It is better now than it was, for sure. It has better bass than the ST-140; not unlike the Bifrost 2 has better bass than the Ares II. And in both cases - the Ares II and the ST-140 both have very good bass, and more open and expansive soundstage.

Class A amps are the benchmark, and I seem to be leaning in that direction.
 
BTW, Schiit is releasing a brand new amp in a month or two, if things work out. Technology I’ve never heard of, based on some type of massive ‘choke’ that they say is their best sounding yet.

200 wpc, probably close to 2K per.

Okay - good to know!

Yet another interesting amp on the horizon is the little 10wpc "chip" amp from GR Research. And I hear that Nelson Pass is working on a follow up to the ACA? If that has a linear power supply, I will be very interested!
 
Back
Top Bottom