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Search for vintage or get a new, budget turntable?

S

sATLite

New Member
I'm looking to buy a turntable but I'm not sure which direction to go because my knowledge sits more with speakers/receivers/amps. I'm not in any hurry but I'd like to find one in the next few months. I'm curious if I should just go with either a new Audio Technica LP3 or Sony PS-LX310BT, jump on one of the active CL listings in my area (Atlanta, and the market is real hit or miss - mostly miss), or hold off to try and find a better deal in the near future. Trying to stay under $300 for now.

Receivers I run: Living room home theater setup runs off a Yamaha TSR-7850 AVR. I also have a Denon DRA-435R
Speakers: Home theater fronts are Polk Audio SDA CRS+. I also have a pair of EPI100 and Advent Legacy I. Advents are in the garage with the Denon, currently using 1 of the EPIs as a center channel in the living room.

Current listings on CL I can jump on: Marantz 6100 for $275, Marantz 6270Q (needs servicing but works) for $165. There's a month old listing for a Dual CS506 for $175 that might still be available. Other than that prices get too high or quality is too bad.

Thoughts?
 
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I would look for a good used one. Maybe a vintage Yamaha to go with that Yamaha AVR? For instance (not related to video poster). :)

 
If you go new, I think I would choose the AT-LP3 over the Sony PS-LX310BT. While both have had very good reviews by the What Hi-Fi magazine here in the UK, the Sony is too limiting in my mind by having a tonearm with a fixed cartridge, so there is no scope for upgrading the cartridge. The AT can take any 'half-inch mount' cartridge and even has an MC circuit in its built-in phono pre-amp. The Fluance turntables are popular and the RT82 would be just within your budget.

But you don't strike me as a Hi-Fi novice, so I'm sure you would benefit from going down the vintage route, especially if you're not in a hurry and can bide your time for the right turntable. Here, you will be able to achieve better quality, even if it requires a bit of maintenance. Of the ones you mention, I would be more inclined towards the Marantz models with S-shaped tonearms and standard SME-type headshells, as they will give you more choice in terms of cartridge (which has a huge effect on the sound character/quality that you achieve).
 
Crab33 said:
If you go new, I think I would choose the AT-LP3 over the Sony PS-LX310BT. While both have had very good reviews by the What Hi-Fi magazine here in the UK, the Sony is too limiting in my mind by having a tonearm with a fixed cartridge, so there is no scope for upgrading the cartridge. The AT can take any 'half-inch mount' cartridge and even has an MC circuit in its built-in phono pre-amp. The Fluance turntables are popular and the RT82 would be just within your budget.

But you don't strike me as a Hi-Fi novice, so I'm sure you would benefit from going down the vintage route, especially if you're not in a hurry and can bide your time for the right turntable. Here, you will be able to achieve better quality, even if it requires a bit of maintenance. Of the ones you mention, I would be more inclined towards the Marantz models with S-shaped tonearms and standard SME-type headshells, as they will give you more choice in terms of cartridge (which has a huge effect on the sound character/quality that you achieve).
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I wish I knew more about what makes a decent turntable so thanks for that but about the tonearms and headshells.

I was talking to a buddy of mine just now and he told me it’s not hard to find a used LP6 for like $100 so that may be my benchmark to compare with vintage pieces unless there’s something about the LP6 I’m missing.

Edit: nvm he was mentioning the LP60 which doesn't seem much better. He had me thinking it was a step up from the LP3
 
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I love the nostalgia and build quality of the older TTs. I have several, including a Thorens, Dual, Pioneer, Hitachi, Sony, and two old Garrards. Nostalgia aside, old TTs often need some attention, cleaning, lube, etc, to keep them running well. It's not particularly difficult for a handy person, but its a factor to consider. IMO, a newer TT would be a better choice for someone who doesn't want to work on a TT, or pay someone else to.
 
knotscott said:
I love the nostalgia and build quality of the older TTs. I have several, including a Thorens, Dual, Pioneer, Hitachi, Sony, and two old Garrards. Nostalgia aside, old TTs often need some attention, cleaning, lube, etc, to keep them running well. It's not particularly difficult for a handy person, but its a factor to consider. IMO, a newer TT would be a better choice for someone who doesn't want to work on a TT, or pay someone else to.
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I do want something that's the best quality for my money, so if a better quality vintage turntable means I have to maintain it here and there I'm okay with that. I'm not a mechanical expert by any means but if it's not difficult or tedious I wouldn't mind.

Looks like in my price range I can also find a Garrard 42m, Garrard 770, Dual 1257, Dual 1258, Technics SL23... At this point I feel like I'm just looking at letters and numbers because all the listings I find are just "works great sounds great" so I have little idea of what to look for
 
I would take a closer look at that Dual 506 you mentioned in the first post.

If it's in good shape it's a proper TT. One thing though: they had a special cartridge mount for an ortofon cartridge. Needs an adapter to take standard half inch cartridges.
 
The AT-LP60 is at the bottom of the Audio Technica turntable range. It is another one of those turntables with a fixed cartridge. You want an arm that can take and be set up for a range of cartridges, so that you have the flexibility to change or upgrade the cartridge if you feel the need to improve or alter the sound. The next AT model up from the AT-LP3 used to be the AT-LP120 and also the AT-LP5 (I'm not sure that the latter is available in the US), but there are a few more AT models around now.

Of the further vintage models you mention, I would forget the two Garrards - they look like low-budget vintage models. The Technics SL-23 should be decent. The Duals are attractive but apart from the more complicated cartridge mounting arrangements, Duals often have low-mass arms that should be used with high-compliance cartridges (meaning the stylus has a soft suspension). High-compliance cartridges are not so common these days, although you should have a relatively wide choice of vintage cartridges with which you can use aftermarket styli. The S-shaped arms of the Marantz and Technics allow relatively easy cartridge installation and a wider choice of cartridges - you will be able to use medium-compliance cartridges (probably most modern cartridges are in this category) and even get away with some high-compliance models.
 
sATLite said:
I do want something that's the best quality for my money, so if a better quality vintage turntable means I have to maintain it here and there I'm okay with that. I'm not a mechanical expert by any means but if it's not difficult or tedious I wouldn't mind.

Looks like in my price range I can also find a Garrard 42m, Garrard 770, Dual 1257, Dual 1258, Technics SL23... At this point I feel like I'm just looking at letters and numbers because all the listings I find are just "works great sounds great" so I have little idea of what to look for
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There are a lot of variables involved with the rest of your system, but at this level the cartridge tends to make more difference than the TT. If the TT is well damped from vibration (more mass is generally good, but there's certainly more involved), spins steadily at speed, and has a sensitive tonearm that's nimble enough to pass along what the cart sends it, and is fully adjustable so it can be dialed in, that's really all it needs to do. There's some physics involved with mating of the mass of the tonearm to the compliance of the cartridge (heavier arm requires less compliant stylus and vice-versa), plus a bit more to matching the capacitance of the cart and phono stage. There's a ton of good cartridge info online about the various stylus tips, bonded vs nude, the impact of the cantilever material and shape, plus the how the windings inside the body influences the overall sound...I'd spend some time researching all that, and maybe focus on getting the best cart and TT (tonearm) match that you can.

Someone meni
 
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I ask out of total ignorance- does that Yamaha receiver have a proper phono input? If not, did I miss that a phono pre is to be used?
 
Keep your eyes open and keep looking, I'd probably stay away from the Marantz even though there's one sitting 6' from me, to me there are better "bang for your bucks" out there; I bought mine to match the equipment stack and it was a fraction of the price. I've always stayed away from the 80's plastic models except Technics, they put out a lot of quality lower-end turntables, that are pretty much bullet-proof. The Garrads and Duals are fine, the top end is really nice but honestly, I never pull one down to mess around with.

Garage sale time is a great way to find nice well cared for, but dusty machines, I've seen some lookers for around $200. Craigslist seems to be more flippers these days and they've reached the bottom of the barrel, a gem will show up occasionally. Personally from the 70's I like Sansui, Pioneer and AR, if you can find one. With new lube they tend to run spot on. Remember, they sold millions of these and a lot are still tucked away in basements.
 
If I understood the intricacies like you guys do I would be so much better off but damn do I need to learn up on turntables to know them like I do speakers and receivers.

to the one who asked if my receivers have a phono pre: yes they do. So I don’t need to worry about any pre coming from the TT. Nor would I want to - I want my amps to cover that. Luckily I know enough to put thought into every component of my system.

my problem is there is SO much on the market and I, as of now, don’t know enough about TT mechanics to separate the good from the below average. Every listing is vague and requires more knowledge than I have to tell whether it’s worth going for or not.

Without doing research on each TT, I’m getting that there are a handful of trusted models from specific manufacturers that I should look for. S-shaped tone arm and the ability to equip a quality cartridge stick out. What I’m getting though, is I can’t just look at a manufacturer and say yeah it’s good enough, like I arguably could to a certain extent with receivers and speakers.

I’m starting to get there. And you guys make me want to learn more. While I do that, I’d like a decent TT to run for a few months or years to get me by. I can find listings for pioneers, technics, and others that seem quality enough, but can I trust that recently serviced units with a quality tone arm and ability to take multiple cartridges would last me a bit? If so, I have a starting point. If not, I’m throwing darts at specific models hoping you guys can’t guide me the right way.

Edit: spelling
 
This dilemma needs to be approached from two directions. If you decide to go used, there's the process of looking for a suitable turntable that won't require some refurbishing. Whatever's going to be done is going to cost "some" to extravagant, and will have a limited warranty. A new 'table can be obtained straight away, require no refurbishment, and have a decent warranty. So you have to decide which of these two directions you wish to go.
 
There is a nice Pioneer PL-514 for sale in the listings. Id snag that one. make a little lower offer.

And it looks like it has an Empire Cartridge. Lots of love for the empires.

00Z0Z_ioZ5PE45WAEz_0CI0t2_1200x900.jpg
 
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Nashou66 said:
There is a nice Pioneer PL-514 for sale in this elistings. Id snag that one. make a little lower offer.

And it looks like it has an Empire Cartridge. Lots of love for the empires.

00Z0Z_ioZ5PE45WAEz_0CI0t2_1200x900.jpg
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Sorry, I don't know the ins and outs of this site. What is elistings?
 
If your the type that might want to mess around with your own gear and it sounds like your not afraid to that I would suggest getting a table with a removable headshell. They are a standard quick change bayonet type of thing that allows you to change a cartridge away from the table instead of working with it while attached to the tonearm. That's called a "fixed headshell" and I hate them myself. Besides, you can pick up spare headshells and have different cartridges mounted so you can change them out in minutes with only a few adjustments.
Cartridges are like speakers, they all have a slightly different sound.
If you see anything you like, you can always post on here and get opinions but good deals don't last long.
One other thing, they haven't passed a law that you can only have one turntable..........yet. I have a few myself.

BillWojo
 
Long Shot, If you use Facebook their is a feature titled "Marketplace" think craigslist. They have audio gear listed. A few months ago I found a Pioneer PL-71 TT for $300.00 in perfect working condition AND the dust cover has very minor scratches. It was nice seeing and touching before buying. You will be surprised what you see, if you've not been there already.
 
Just following up on the fixed vs detachable headshell thing, this is something to consider if you do intend to change cartridge - it's much easier with a detachable headshell. I don't have the manual skills to do it on a fixed headshell. Nearly all S-shaped and J-shaped arms have a detachable 'SME-type' headshell. Many straight arms do too, but more modern audiophile turntables with straight arms from likes of Rega and Pro-ject don't.

Something else to mention that I don't think has been covered... if you want to keep it simple, go for a completely manual turntable. The mechanism of an automatic turntable is something that can cause issues and is potentially a headache that you don't want.
 
When I bought my first turntable I went new, a budget-friendly Fluance RT81. I've been through many machines since then and now prefer Thorens sprung models, but had I started with a used Thorens, or anything like it at the beginning, I would have been right back to digital. Even with a machine that operates properly, there is too much to learn to get started. VTF, VTA, cartridge types, cartridge alignment, record acquisition and care, phono preamps, etc etc. Phono isn't a switch it on and move along kind of hobby.

I'm a believer in buying something inexpensive and brand new to get started. Use it, gain relevant knowledge and build from there. If two years from now it's a secondary player and you've moved on, great. Used machines very often require maintenance, adjustment and care. Much of the knowledge required to buy smart and to get the machine set up and working properly isn't in your head yet. IMO, rushing out and buying a used machine is a recipe for disaster for the new hobbyist.

The posters here who advocate for buying used are right about the value proposition, except they forget how much knowledge that they have gained and now take for granted. Without that knowledge, it's risky (at best) to jump into the used phono market.

Something like an RT81 or RT82 would be easy to use and get started with.
 
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