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Seeking Tube Amp Recommendation -- Decware SE84UFO2 ???

P

Parallax982

Super Member
Just recently fell into the tube amp rabbit hole. I have six vintage SS receivers, including three beautiful Marantzes (two with engraved face plates). But then about a month ago, I bought a set of Klipschorns and you know how it goes. One thing leads to another. So many of the guys around here were saying they sound best with tubes. Then I stumbled upon this sweet Fisher 400 and wow! The Fisher plus KHorns have opened new vistas for me. I didn't know the dead could come back to life. I've never experienced such a beautiful, wide sound stage. So soft and warm, yet accurate, this systems sounds great played at any volume but, when turned up, the engagement is unreal.

The KHorns sounded really good on my Marantz 2270 too. At the time, I knew of nothing better and was 100% satisfied. But now that I have the Fisher, the Marantz just sits on its shelf gathering dust. I couldn't go back to it if I tried. I've seen (ok, heard) the promised land!

My upstairs system is sweet. A cap coupled Marantz 2230 receiving through a Geshelli Labs J2 DAC with the AKM4499 chipset and Sparkos opamps feeding Coral BX-300 speakers with a HSU VTF-2 subwoofer. It's lovely. So glad I stumbled upon those Corals because no one knows about them and they sound incredible. The 2230 sounds rich and warm, similar to the Fisher. But only to a point. A very nice point. But you know what it's like. Might it be better still, I think, as I fall deeper into the bottomless audio gear rabbit hole.

So here's my question. I love, love, love the Fisher. I could get another. Perhaps an integrated. But I'm curious about single ended tube amps. I've heard really good things about the Decware SE84UFO2. I wouldn't mind waiting to receive it. I don't generally buy new because I love the sound and look and feel of vintage gear. But this one strikes me as really special.

On the other hand, I wouldn't want something accurate and sterile. I want rich and warm. Does it sound like the SE84UFO2 might fit the bill. Not much power in that amp but the Corals are 102db efficient (and they play in a bedroom). The KHorns are of course in a larger room but they stand at 106db efficiency, which is frankly nuts. My intention would be to pair the SE84UFO2 with my upstairs system.

If this seems a wise move, which of the upgrades are worth it? I see there's an upgraded version which adds something like $260 to the base price. Since there's no showroom where one can hear them, I'd appreciate guidance from those who have heard them and have also heard vitage Fisher tube gear. Thanks.
 
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Your story is similar to my first toe hold into the magic of tubes. I had just been able to buy my first stereo, a NAD integrated amp which I was quite happy with until I bought a Fisher 500C tubed receiver. And the difference was like honey to my ears. Since then I have been 95% into tube gear and now just listen to my own hand built amps. Push pull type tube amps sound wonderful but there is another level of sound quality that a single ended design can portray. With usually only 2 stages of amplification, in most SE amps the original signal passes through less than half as many components as PP amps. While fewer parts and a simpler design does not necessarily guarantee better sound it does help preserve subtle audio cues that can be lost when a PP amp splits the signal in the phase splitter circuit and then recombines it in the power tube and output transformer. So, if you truly love the audio quality from tubes then a next logical step would be to sample the single ended designs. Decaware is certainly a well regarded brand but don't dismiss what can be a far less expensive and just as sonically rewarding amplifier custom made by a local craftsman or woman. Also foreign tube audio brands are of high quality with the chifi offerings being much more acceptable and even highly regarded in some brands. You can even dip your toe in the DIY scene as many newbies here have also tried with excellent results. Good luck and happy listening.
 
Enjoyed reading your post. As you no doubt know, the Fisher community here is fabulous. They helped me get my 400 into a working state with some practical advice and encouragement .. I was in disbelief when I played my first record through it (on a turntable made around the same time as the Fisher) ... my first experience with tube audio .. the 400 was my gateway drug ..

good luck with SE amp search .. there are some positive threads here about Analog Ethos in Malvern PA - they sell SE amp kits https://www.analogethos.com/ae1-c

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Just an FYI
The Coral"s are not 102 dB @ 1w/1m.
My guess from looking at the vague specifications I found is that number is their maximum output with their maximum input of 32 watts. I don't know the distance since that is not specified or if they included some additional "room gain", but their 1w/1m number would more likely be around 90 dBs.

I have a pair of 90 dB speakers in a spare bedroom that get plenty loud for me with a se pentode 6BQ5 Magnavox which has a little more power than the Decware, have not tried my new triode strapped 6BQ5 amplifier with less power yet.
 
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Second Primotubes suggestion to build. There is enough support to drag you through the process should you get stuck somewhere. I still have the first piece I built, though it went through a significant set of iterations... :)

Douglas
 
Another tube amp is always a good idea!
And a SE el84 amp should sound great & will offer a contrast to your 7868 pp amp and SS receivers.
I am unfamiliar with this specific amp & options. I will have to leave the specifics to you & others.

I am curious about the pairing your new $$ SE amp with your Corals. Have you tried the Fisher with your Coral speakers?
Tube sound is nice, but tubes through horns is especially unique. And you have some very nice horn speakers. Plus, part of the SE sound is detail, which will benefit from quality speakers. On paper, I like the SE amp with the Klipsch. The good things is, you can always move equipment around in your system!
 
The Decware amps are nice amps and would be a good pairing with your Klipschorns. Have seen recently the wait is ~3 years after ordering to get your amp. If it was me, I'd be looking on the used market for a Decware amp. Am seeing them pop up frequently because Decware has been selling them for 25 years I think.

Yesterday there was a Dynaco ST35 for sale in Bartertown for a good price. It won't last long if it has not already sold.
 
If you're interested in a kit you should consider Elekit. They have so many now it may be hard to choose. I would recommend the TU-8900 with 2A3 tubes. I use it as my daily driver and it is very musical.
 
I have a Decware SE84. I think ordering something with the hope for a specific sound is a low-odds scenario. I would describe the Decware sound as generally very clean, not particularly warm though that doesn't mean it's cold either... When you hear what the amp does you appreciate those aspects of sound, and either you get into that or you move on. Out of their amps, the SE34i is reputed to be "warmer".

Having had a 2270, that's what I would consider a "warm" sounding amp, and I'll take clarity, nuance and in-the-room presence over that any day, but of course we all have different opinions.

I suspect the Fisher 400 will be "warmer" than the Decware, but there will be a clear difference between those two, and your experience with the Decware vs. the Fisher might be similar to your experience with the Fisher vs. the Marantz. You may enjoy having both options, a good low power SE amp and a good PP amp for when you want more power.

You won't get many positive comments about Decware here, but it's a good amp. Whether it's worth the price and wait or better than any other option I can't answer. I've moved on from mine to a DIY 300B amp but I wouldn't be sad about going back to the Decware.
 
Thanks so much for all the great answers. I wonder what will be the best option per dollar spent. I paid $750 for my Fisher 400. A lot of these SE amps are way more expensive.
 
If you are inclined to try DIY, the Kegger/Blueglow Electronics UL SE KT-88 amp sounds very good, is (relatively) cost effective, and can be run in either triode or UL mode. There's a huge thread where many have shared their building experiences for it (including me). It's a pretty straight-forward build and Mark of Blueglow has a whole series of step-by-step youtube videos on how to build it, with a detailed parts list/BOM for a couple of the major parts jobbers. It's great with my horn speakers (Cornwalls).
Here's a shot of mine:

Dave
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Dave451 said:
If you are inclined to try DIY, the Kegger/Blueglow Electronics UL SE KT-88 amp sounds very good, is (relatively) cost effective, and can be run in either triode or UL mode. There's a huge thread where many have shared their building experiences for it (including me). It's a pretty straight-forward build and Mark of Blueglow has a whole series of step-by-step youtube videos on how to build it, with a detailed parts list/BOM for a couple of the major parts jobbers. It's great with my horn speakers (Cornwalls).
Here's a shot of mine:

Dave
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Wow. That's gorgeous. I'm intrigued by something that can run push-pull (is that what UL means?) or SET.

What is the total cost to do something like this?
 
Blueglow video series on YT for the KT 88 kegger build .. -- even if you don't build it, the build lessons are excellent .. I think I watched every episode .. maybe someday I will actually build ..

 
UL is Ultra Linear. It’s a mode of operation based on a type of output transformer with separate taps for the plate and screen grid. It can be done for push pull or SE amps. This one is Single ended (SE). The sonics are different depending on whether you run the kT88’s in UL or triode mode, which is selected by a built-in switch.
 
Dave451 said:
UL is Ultra Linear. It’s a mode of operation based on a type of output transformer with separate taps for the plate and screen grid. It can be done for push pull or SE amps. This one is Single ended (SE). The sonics are different depending on whether you run the kT88’s in UL or triode mode, which is selected by a built-in switch.
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Can you give me a sense of what it costs to build one of these? PM me about it if you can't post it here. Thanks.
 
As for cost, the iron is the big thing. As specified (and shown in mine), the output transformers, power transformer, and filter choke are all Edcor and the biggest expense: probably around $600-650. Tubes (2 KT88, one 5AR4, and one input dual triode) are going to be $200-250 for good, new production. Parts including chassis, depending on how fancy you are on caps and the chassis, are going to be something like $150-200. So, something like $1000-1200 all in cost, plus the time to build it, high spot estimate.

What you get is a proven, well-performing unit and the satisfaction of building it yourself. This is a pretty powerful SE amp, giving something like 13-15W RMS out per channel.

Dave
 
Dave451 said:
As for cost, the iron is the big thing. As specified (and shown in mine), the output transformers, power transformer, and filter choke are all Edcor and the biggest expense: probably around $600-650. Tubes (2 KT88, one 5AR4, and one input dual triode) are going to be $200-250 for good, new production. Parts including chassis, depending on how fancy you are on caps and the chassis, are going to be something like $150-200. So, something like $1000-1200 all in cost, plus the time to build it, high spot estimate.

What you get is a proven, well-performing unit and the satisfaction of building it yourself. This is a pretty powerful SE amp, giving something like 13-15W RMS out per channel.

Dave
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Thanks Dave. That's not bad at all for a SE amp from what I can tell.
 
Parallax982 said:
Thanks Dave. That's not bad at all for a SE amp from what I can tell.
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For comparison, I believe Decaware sells a SE kt88 amp that approaches 3K ? Not sure of the exact price but more than twice as much as a DIY build. If you are a "handy man" and like to fix and repair your stuff then building a simple SE amp is not that difficult and very rewarding when the first musical notes hit your ears on first listening. I did my own tube amp rebuilds before making my own amps from scratch and that can be an easier path since all the significant parts are already there. There were quite a number of SE amps used in stereo consoles, tape recorders, juke boxes, etc. from back in the day. These pieces turn up regularly on the usual auction site and classified stereo sites as well as C'sList. Becoming knowledgeable with components and circuitry are the first steps in the care and feeding of your tube equipment. Many of us who love tube audio had their start in this way.
 
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