Sell my Grado Reference Platinum 1, Denon DL303 and Yaqin MS23b to purchase a second EAR 834P copy?

[mjw21a]

Ok so I recently acquired an EAR 834P copy from Douk Audio and have since decided that the Yaqin MS23b simply isn’t going to cut it in my secondary system any longer I need another EAR copy.

The interesting thing is that with the EAR 834P copy my cartridge ranking has completely changed. My Denon DL303 has better detail and resolution than my DL103 and seems to have gained body which it previously lacked. On the other hand it seems a pain in the neck to get VTA adjustments right on and it changes dependent on whether it’s a 180g vinyl or thinner.

My Grado Reference Platinum 1 performance has improved slightly from with the Yaqin MS23B which is nice, the only issue is that the performance of all my other (less expensive) carts have improved to the point that they’re on par with it or surpass it in some areas.

Of particular note the Empire 4000 D/I has detail and resolution on part with my Denon DL303 (they do both have shibata tips) though lacks a little of the magic of my DL103. It does seem a bit warmer and more neutral than the DL103 though. It’s certainly more detailed and neutral than my recently acquired Grado Reference Platinum 1 as well which seems to give a better sense of space and surroundings though at the expense of the music production itself. Yes, it’s a nice cart, though its just not as good as the Empire cart which is frankly second only to my Denon DL103.

Now I’m currently trying all of these on my JVC QL7 while I wait for the Fidelity Research FR-24 II tonearm for my new Ariston RD110 SL turntable so I guess I’ll need to try them all voer again. I’m thinking that if this remains true with that table then I should sell up my Grado Reference Platinum 1 with Microtracer tip and Denon DL303 with shibata tip. The DL303 also needs a quality SUT to get the ebst out of it. I’ve only 1x Jensen Copper Foil type SUT whereas my backup is an Ortofon T5 SUT. Nice though not really on the same level. The Empire cart is simply the better value offering here and less fussy about setup. User replaceable styli is a nice plus too.

Anyways, you opinions would be appreciated here.

 

[sqlsavior]

I can't recommend which to keep or sell, but in general, your plan makes sense to me, unless you want to build a cartridge collection. I'm not trying to collect this stuff myself - I'd rather reduce clutter in the service of true upgrades. The HANA S is certainly interesting.

Also interesting is your phono preamp story - both old and new. One reason for me is that I used to have a Yaqin MS-22B, which my friend liked more than I did, to put it euphemistically. I've been wondering whether the 23 was different, or whether you would find another phono preamp you liked better, which it seems you have. Compared to my Hafler DH-110, the MS-22B sounded tizzy, with exaggerated bass, but I may not have given it a fair hearing.

I wasn't aware of the EAR copy, and it looks well executed, but then what do I know? I'd love to hear it! There are about half a dozen phono preamps in the $300-400 range that I would sure love to compare. I'm using a Luxman C1000 as an auxiliary phono preamp, and it's pretty good, but if the EAR copy really uses Tim's circuit, then that is intriguing. Is yours the one from Douk Audio on flea-bay?

 

[mjw21a]

I think the Yaqin MS23b was a decent start phono stage..... It was my very first phono stage and outperformed a Cambridge Audio 651p (which was a backwards step for me) and Little Bear T10 Pro V2.6, probably due to quality control and circuit design. It responded well to tube rolling though nothing like the EAR 834P circuit does. I never noticed that the MS23B was bass heavy though there was a slight breakup around the edges of some singers vocals. Norah Jones was a good example which I had previously though was tracking issues with the cart.... It wasn't, it was the Yaqin MS23B. The same was true of the Little Bear. It simply wasn't able to resolve such fine detail.

I'm currently running a Telefunken Smooth Grey Plate in v1, Phillips Miniwatt in v2 and Reissue Sylvania in v3 and it sounds stunning. I've some TJ Full Music tubes on the way to try at some point too.

By the way I have confirmed that these are outright fakes made for China's domestic market. Upon request they can be ordered without the copper tape and it has full branding. Little details are wrong vs the real real though. For example the Chinese don't apepar to know the importable of capital letters with peoples names..... Put the copper tape on there is its basically a well executed copy.

Yes, mine is the Douk audio one from eBay.

I guess I'll need to wait for my Fidelity Research FR-24 Mk2 tonearm for my Ariston RD110 SL before I decide what to keep and what to sell. Looks like the idea is sound at least.

 

[Audiogypsy]

Late to reply but thanks for your review. I'm very interested in the EAR clone by Douk. I would assume that it sounds pretty good?

 

[mjw21a]

It is a nice unit, though I've since found that a used/vintage Realistic 42-2101 or 42-2109 FET based stage is on almost the same level after about a 1 week warm up.

I find it unusual that a solid state stage should need such a long warm up time though it does indeed make a huge difference with those stages. You can often pick them up for $20, and you simply leave them on so it simplifies operation of your system. Due to this you won't find me recommending any EAR 834P based units any longer. For a bright/analytical system I do like the phono's based on the Marantz 7 circuit such as the Sheer Audio MM-88.

Very warm, laid back and open creating the widest sound stage I've ever come across. Having said that it is a noiser stage than the Douk.

If not looking for that tube warmth and accuracy is your goal, and budget can extend far enough the best I've tried is a Valab LCR-1 with the most natural and detailed sound I've ever heard. Very neutral and it will sound like whichever cart you choose to place in front of it. Despite it not requiring a SUT for LOMC's I still prefer it with a SUT. A SUT seems to add solidity to most LOMC carts which can sound a bit thin and anemic otherwise. The adjustable gain and loading options of the stage allows you to tailor the sound you get still further.

I no longer have an EAR 834P setup in any of my systems though I do still own one. It is concieveable that I might move back to it due to far fewer tubes to replace than my Sheer Audio MM-88. On the other hand that stage is on my second system and doesn't see much use so maybe not. The Valab LCR-1 is the stage I use most often.

 

[muovimies]

It is a nice unit, though I've since found that a used/vintage Realistic 42-2101 or 42-2109 FET based stage is on almost the same level after about a 1 week warm up.

It's not really based on FETs, all the transistors are BJTs. It has a note on the schematic where it says all the voltages are measured using "FET V.O.M" which is just in reference to the type of meter used. Maybe that's where the confusion began.

 

[mjw21a]

It's not really based on FETs, all the transistors are BJTs. It has a note on the schematic where it says all the voltages are measured using "FET V.O.M" which is just in reference to the type of meter used. Maybe that's where the confusion began.

Interesting, I didn't know that Either way , they're fantastic units for not much money

 

[Ilikevinyl]

I'm using a Yaqin MS-23B that I like much better than the Cambridge 640P I was using before. Replaced the stock tubes with Sovtek 12AX7LPS. The Sovtek tubes sound more balanced than the stock ones. Using an Empire 2000Z cartridge that sounds warm and rich sounding. The Yaqin is a "Best Buy", built like a tank!

The EAR 834 is very popular!

 

[bobins08]

I'm using a Yaqin MS-23B that I like much better than the Cambridge 640P I was using before. Replaced the stock tubes with Sovtek 12AX7LPS. The Sovtek tubes sound more balanced than the stock ones. Using an Empire 2000Z cartridge that sounds warm and rich sounding. The Yaqin is a "Best Buy", built like a tank!

The EAR 834 is very popular!

Hey Steve, didn’t know you were a tube guy now!

 

[mjw21a]

I'm using a Yaqin MS-23B that I like much better than the Cambridge 640P I was using before. Replaced the stock tubes with Sovtek 12AX7LPS. The Sovtek tubes sound more balanced than the stock ones. Using an Empire 2000Z cartridge that sounds warm and rich sounding. The Yaqin is a "Best Buy", built like a tank!

The EAR 834 is very popular!

Provided your MS23B has the Lesbox mod then it should be very nice. You're quite right that it's better than the Cambridge 651. The best tubes I tried in the stock MS23B when I had 2 years were Raytheon Black Plate 12AX7. Definitely suggest obtaining a pair. The 834P circuit responds to tube rolling better though.

That Empire is a lovely cart. I'm a big fan of the vintage Empires with the 4000 D/I being one of my favourite carts non MC carts

 

[Ilikevinyl]

Hey Steve, didn’t know you were a tube guy now!

Hey Bob,

Yes, tubes rule! I can't believe how much better the Yaqin is over the Cambridge. Yaqin gives a really nice 3D sound stage, compared to the Cambridge. Really like the smooth tube sound!

Keep Spinning!

 

[Ilikevinyl]

Provided your MS23B has the Lesbox mod then it should be very nice. You're quite right that it's better than the Cambridge 651. The best tubes I tried in the stock MS23B when I had 2 years were Raytheon Black Plate 12AX7. Definitely suggest obtaining a pair. The 834P circuit responds to tube rolling better though.

That Empire is a lovely cart. I'm a big fan of the vintage Empires with the 4000 D/I being one of my favourite carts non MC carts

No, the Yaqin doesn't have that mod. Really like the sound! Thanks for the tip on the Raytheon Black Plate tubes.

I'm sure the 834P sounds much better.

My 2000Z is my first Empire cartridge I've owned. I remember reading about the 2000Z in all of those stereo magazines back in the late '70's, the praise that cartridge received in the reviews. Bought it last year, was mounted on a Dual 521 turntable that I bought for $19.99 at a thrift store! Was totally surprised to read the model number printed on the bottom of the cartridge.

 

[mjw21a]

Damn, that's an absolute steal. I kind of wish you were local as I've wanted to hear a 2000Z or 2000T for some time now.

I ended up lending a box of my 12AX7 tubes to another mate with a stock MS23B, he ended up buying my Raytheon Black Plate 12AX7 for it so it seems it wasn't just me likes that combination. Takes the MS23B to another level.

 

[bobins08]

@Ilikevinyl ,

NOS Raytheon black plate 12AX7’s are not cheap. A low microphonic, high quality matched pair will cost about $200.

NOS RCA’s are also excellent preamp tubes.

 

[mjw21a]

The Raytheon's though are worth every penny. Still cheaper than NOS Mullard or Amperex Bugle Boy tubes, and in this particular piece of gear , sound better too

Look at Baldwin organ tube pulls. Often cheaper there and quality control was very good on those