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Selling off the L300s to build a custom 4 way… Thoughts?

saabracer23

saabracer23

AK Subscriber
Subscriber
I posted something similar over at the Lansing Heritage forums, but getting radio Silence.

I Currently have a few pair of JBLs left, L7s, XPL200As, and L300s. The L300s have been modded as I have charge coupled Nelson Pass crossovers in them (still have the originals sitting on a shelf). I don’t need to sell any of them, but with the L300s being the biggest and my DIY plans being big figured it was best to move them. Plus with my wife and I just having twin girls that are now 6 months old, they’ll buy a pack or two of diapers and formula.

So, onto the DIY plans. This will be for my home theater so I will be making 3, the center will be turned when I listen to music in the basement.

For the bottom end I’ll go 18” and I have 3 NIB 2242hs and 3 gently used 2245hs. I can’t decide, I’m leaning to the 2242s, I would love others’ input though! Why I’m thinking 2242 is because I’ll have them full range for music and crossed at about 40 hz for movies to some Dayton Ultimax 18s. So not too much demanded from them.

For midbass each speaker will get two 251Js. Similar to the 2251 except that these have bigger neo magnets, bigger heat sinking, bigger coils, added mass, aquaplas coating, and I believe copper shorting rings. From what I know these drivers were only used in the SK2-3300.
223DDBDE-8BF3-47E9-A4C2-2CA8A9D1CF1C.jpeg
840CBB4D-AFC2-4392-B27C-9B5EB07E4AB1.jpeg

The midbass will cross to a 435Be, which is a 3” beryllium that has been coated in aquaplas. They’ll be mounted to the H9800 horn.

C4D4E202-CC87-4E4F-BD80-077275F1E398.jpeg
6E1E502B-FA51-46B2-B0C4-5CDDA271A640.jpeg
70098A7D-A9D9-498A-9594-17FF98897333.jpeg

One thing I like about these horns is that they’re notched for the super tweeter! Which brings me to the last driver, 045Be. It is a 1” beryllium and again I believe it too is coated in aquaplas, but I could be wrong about this driver.

96CA9BA2-DDF6-44BB-BC3A-7639B298CDE3.jpeg
C7F2697F-5239-4A82-A4E6-CB761F66E0C3.jpeg

So technically I have three SK2-3300s minus the cabinets. I’d like to add an 18” woofer to each to make a full range speaker.

Here are my thoughts on the crossovers. The original passive crossover ran one 10” from 0hz to 150hz, the second 10” from 0hz to 850hz, the 435Be from 850hz to 20khz, and the 045Be from 20khz up. All crossover points are 4th order (24db per octave).

What I was thinking of doing is running the two horns on the passive crossovers, their factory points. I’d use a DSP on the 18s and the 10s. I’d run the two 251Js up to 850hz and down to 200-300hz where they would meet the 18s. So I’d run the 2242Hs to somewhere between 200-300hz. Again, would absolutely LOVE suggestion on this or critique.

So figure they would look like this:
7B7087F3-42CA-4E10-B70F-7412AB010F89.jpeg

With this on top lol

A3A27045-7023-468C-BD54-3D604E271B19.jpeg

Or potentially this, which I’m not completely digging yet.

347386AB-D1D8-46B7-8F4D-2F43D2041C94.jpeg

As for DSP I can’t seem to get much as far as suggestions so for now I’m settled on picking up 3 minidsp 2x4HDs, but if there is something you think is better out there please let me know. Figure without subs I’d need 9 channels of DSP. Even though I’ll have the two horns running through the passive (glad they’ll have the passive as protection as the replacement diaphragms are insane, nearly 1k for each of the 3”) I’d still like to run those on a channel of DSP so I can play with timing and such.

Anyways, tell me I’m stupid to sell the L300s, or that you’d do the same, tell me whatever you want, but I feel I really need input from others.

Thank you so much!
Dan
 
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saabracer23 said:
I posted something similar over at the Lansing Heritage forums, but getting radio Silence.

I Currently have a few pair of JBLs left, L7s, XPL200As, and L300s. The L300s have been modded as I have charge coupled Nelson Pass crossovers in them (still have the originals sitting on a shelf). I don’t need to sell any of them, but with the L300s being the biggest and my DIY plans being big figured it was best to move them. Plus with my wife and I just having twin girls that are now 6 months old, they’ll buy a pack or two of diapers and formula.

So, onto the DIY plans. This will be for my home theater so I will be making 3, the center will be turned when I listen to music in the basement.

For the bottom end I’ll go 18” and I have 3 NIB 2242hs and 3 gently used 2245hs. I can’t decide, I’m leaning to the 2242s, I would love others’ input though! Why I’m thinking 2242 is because I’ll have them full range for music and crossed at about 40 hz for movies to some Dayton Ultimax 18s. So not too much demanded from them.

For midbass each speaker will get two 251Js. Similar to the 2251 except that these have bigger neo magnets, bigger heat sinking, bigger coils, added mass, aquaplas coating, and I believe copper shorting rings. From what I know these drivers were only used in the SK2-3300.
View attachment 2554002
View attachment 2554003

The midbass will cross to a 435Be, which is a 3” beryllium that has been coated in aquaplas. They’ll be mounted to the H9800 horn.

View attachment 2554004
View attachment 2554005
View attachment 2554006

One thing I like about these horns is that they’re notched for the super tweeter! Which brings me to the last driver, 045Be. It is a 1” beryllium and again I believe it too is coated in aquaplas, but I could be wrong about this driver.

View attachment 2554024
View attachment 2554025

So technically I have three SK2-3300s minus the cabinets. I’d like to add an 18” woofer to each to make a full range speaker.

Here are my thoughts on the crossovers. The original passive crossover ran one 10” from 0hz to 150hz, the second 10” from 0hz to 850hz, the 435Be from 850hz to 20khz, and the 045Be from 20khz up. All crossover points are 4th order (24db per octave).

What I was thinking of doing is running the two horns on the passive crossovers, their factory points. I’d use a DSP on the 18s and the 10s. I’d run the two 251Js up to 850hz and down to 200-300hz where they would meet the 18s. So I’d run the 2242Hs to somewhere between 200-300hz. Again, would absolutely LOVE suggestion on this or critique.

So figure they would look like this:
View attachment 2554010

With this on top lol

View attachment 2554011

Or potentially this, which I’m not completely digging yet.

View attachment 2554012

As for DSP I can’t seem to get much as far as suggestions so for now I’m settled on picking up 3 minidsp 2x4HDs, but if there is something you think is better out there please let me know. Figure without subs I’d need 9 channels of DSP. Even though I’ll have the two horns running through the passive (glad they’ll have the passive as protection as the replacement diaphragms are insane, nearly 1k for each of the 3”) I’d still like to run those on a channel of DSP so I can play with timing and such.

Anyways, tell me I’m stupid to sell the L300s, or that you’d do the same, tell me whatever you want, but I feel I really need input from others.

Thank you so much!
Dan
Click to expand...
I think Drew Daniels would approve. Also any system you put together with those drivers will deserve the proper crossover to get the best out of them.
That may be the real challenge to take on.
 
Nothing useful to add...except pairing up the 10s horizontally over the 18 looks better in my imagination :)

3 of the 2245 tuned and EQd like the B460 sub would be impressive. No real need for the Ultimax 18s except to fill in between ~12 and 24 Hz ;)

It is unfortunate that JBL didn't build a "new" version of 2245 in the 2242 frame.

Great project. Good luck!
 
My input would be to keep it simple . Do you really need a 4 way ? I am just so blown away by the 2 way JBL 4670 system and that 4 inch compression driver that I don't miss or need a tweeter or a lower mid either for that matter .

And I say this just recently having heard a K2 S9900. I wanted a lot less tweeter from it but there was no way to pad it down enough that it didn't keep shouting its presence. The store owner agreed with me strongly on that front.

Jblnut
 
jblnut said:
My input would be to keep it simple . Do you really need a 4 way ? I am just so blown away by the 2 way JBL 4670 system and that 4 inch compression driver that I don't miss or need a tweeter or a lower mid either for that matter .

And I say this just recently having heard a K2 S9900. I wanted a lot less tweeter from it but there was no way to pad it down enough that it didn't keep shouting its presence. The store owner agreed with me strongly on that front.

Jblnut
Click to expand...

I think I do want it to be a bit more simple and will trim it to a three way. Though I’m still torn on what to do. It’s funny you meantion the K2-S9900. Yesterday I picked up a pair of NIB 1500AL

41E0399E-8386-451E-9EE0-0D3E73324709.jpeg
EE796DFB-F52D-48A5-AB89-305E7DE35407.jpeg
44AA7F18-B725-42C7-B297-041F410A67A0.jpeg

So now I have all of the drivers to clone the K2-S9800, but not too sure how much luck I’ll have finding crossover schematics and cabinet design.

I did a bit of reading and it seems as though many like the 9900 more than the 9800 and it seems to come down to the 3” beryllium vs 4” magnesium (and horns, but the H9800 is a very good horn). Of course if I could get the 4” beryllium that would be neat, but I’m wondering if I should try to source out the 476Mg driver used in the S9900. Replicating the horn on the S9900 would not be easy. The differences between the 1500AL and 1500AL-1 are small and I see that many prefer the 1500AL anyways. I know I’m probably putting too much thought into this, but I want to get it right the first time. I wonder if by using all active crossovers if I could remedy the “shoutiness” issues you had with the 9900.

Dan
 
Nyjblbob said:
How did you get a pair of those
Woofers???
Available through pro?
Click to expand...

The 1500AL? From a local guy who had close ties to JBL before they were bought out by Samsung. I also got a DX-1 from him that belonged to Greg Timbers for my XPL-200As.

Funny enough I sent my brother pics of the woofers after I grabbed them and he then proceeded to text Jerry Moro who designed the woofer (or at least had a major hand in designing) and tell him that I was building a car subwoofer with them. He politely said I’d be a moron to do that. He too was curious where I got them.

Dan
 
Macaroonie said:
Speaking from personal experience before you do anything else use the DSP that you have and see what you get with the L300's.
Just take your wiring in through the bass port.
I would advise using the same amps on each section.
Use protection caps on the mid and top.

View attachment 2560250
Click to expand...

Beautiful speaker by the way! Did you assemble those? I have many amplifiers, but the three that would be closest to the same are 2 Yamaha PC9501n which would give me 925w for each of the woofers and each mid and then a single PC6501 which offers up to 650 watts per tweeter (all at 8 ohms). That’s as close as I have, otherwise a mismatch of amplifiers unless I sell some to purchase others. ( I have thought about grabbing some of the 6-8 multichannel units like Monolith, etc). They can offer 200-250w per channel into 6-8 channels and they would then indeed be the same power per driver.

Dan
 
Thanks Dan. Yes I built them from scratch ,styling details from L 300.
Drivers are 2235H B&C 150watt mid comp driver and slot tweets.
They are fully active run from a JBL Urei M553 analog xx/o with mods.
The horn is a JBL 2380 and its in there to reach down to the 2235's useable range which IMO maxes out at 600hz
There is a huge improvement available from active drive simply in the ability of the amps driving a single transducer. Much much more coherence.
I have a build thread over on LH which is mostly woodworking related but worth a peek for some of the detail regarding organising your cable strategy.
You have grabbed some spectacular drivers , thats just the beginning.

Linky http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulle...38-Backyard-Box-Building-The-Build&highlight=
 
Getting back to the L300's I would at least use them as a way to get used to the highways and byways of DSP control of your system.
There is much to learn about delay , PEQ etc etc. Modern DSP's have very powerful toolboxes. The user interface is important so that you can achieve your goals.
Quite the learning curve.
Then you could for example drop in different 15's , others have found the 2216 breathes new life into the L300.

Have fun
 
saabracer23 said:
The 1500AL? From a local guy who had close ties to JBL before they were bought out by Samsung. I also got a DX-1 from him that belonged to Greg Timbers for my XPL-200As.

Funny enough I sent my brother pics of the woofers after I grabbed them and he then proceeded to text Jerry Moro who designed the woofer (or at least had a major hand in designing) and tell him that I was building a car subwoofer with them. He politely said I’d be a moron to do that. He too was curious where I got them.

Dan
Click to expand...

Please find a ratty car sub cabinet to load them in, get lots of photos, and ask really stupid questions. Post over at LH under user name Dano69420....;)

Yes, being an internet troll is bad but sometimes you've got to do it.

Your project just keeps getting better :)
 
Macaroonie said:
Thanks Dan. Yes I built them from scratch ,styling details from L 300.
Drivers are 2235H B&C 150watt mid comp driver and slot tweets.
They are fully active run from a JBL Urei M553 analog xx/o with mods.
The horn is a JBL 2380 and its in there to reach down to the 2235's useable range which IMO maxes out at 600hz
There is a huge improvement available from active drive simply in the ability of the amps driving a single transducer. Much much more coherence.
I have a build thread over on LH which is mostly woodworking related but worth a peek for some of the detail regarding organising your cable strategy.
You have grabbed some spectacular drivers , thats just the beginning.

Linky http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulle...38-Backyard-Box-Building-The-Build&highlight=
Click to expand...


Macaroonie said:
Getting back to the L300's I would at least use them as a way to get used to the highways and byways of DSP control of your system.
There is much to learn about delay , PEQ etc etc. Modern DSP's have very powerful toolboxes. The user interface is important so that you can achieve your goals.
Quite the learning curve.
Then you could for example drop in different 15's , others have found the 2216 breathes new life into the L300.

Have fun
Click to expand...

That really is awesome and immediately saw the L300 coming through. Are those the 2405s or clone? I thought I remember B&C making a clone which is why I ask. I have quite a bit of experience with DSPs, though only the Dayton DSP-408 and the minidsp 2x4HD. I’ve used both to mock up crossovers in mostly 2 way bookshelves and towers. Ultimately I’d love to keep the L-300s, but I really need to make room for these speakers and hopefully recoup some money I’ve spent recently. Plus I have a lot of speaker, large Kefs, large ADS, large infinity, too many really do I need to move some anyways. I have a pair of 2405s, so if I miss them I have them lol.

I had my eye out for some 2216nd-1s and never came across any. I wonder how the 1500AL would do in the summit cabinet and how it would compare to the 2216s.

Dan
 
donprice said:
Please find a ratty car sub cabinet to load them in, get lots of photos, and ask really stupid questions. Post over at LH under user name Dano69420....;)

Yes, being an internet troll is bad but sometimes you've got to do it.

Your project just keeps getting better :)
Click to expand...

That would be so hilarious, I so wish I had a cabinet for 2 15s. Then take a pic of them in a trunk with a bunch of other things like a car jack, tire iron, trash all around them like they’re inches from being damaged.

Dan
 
Unless you are using DSP processing and individual amps for each type of driver, you need to make sure all your acoustic centers are in a vertical line to get a more coherent wall of sound. If the world were perfect I would have full range drivers with no crossovers. But we know thats a dream. There is a new Celestion Driver out there that is flat from 300 to 19,500 HZ on the right horn with a 2 inch throat with 108 or 9 db sensitivity. But you would need a good size Horn for that. Then all you would need are the right woofers, Two ought to do it or maybe one of those big 18 inch babies. Then you would have a nice two way like that other companies Jubilee for a lot less money. I would be looking for a pair of UREI 813's with JBL drivers and add your big 18's to that. They are already time aligned and work very well from the mid 30's to over 20,000 HZ. MAybe they won't quite rattle the walls like your design, but they are proven and you wouldn't be pulling your hair from now on trying to get your set up being the best it can be.
 
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