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Separates versus Receivers

VintageNut

VintageNut

Super Member
Anyone have personal experience comparing something like a Marantz 2325, Pioneer SX-1250, with separate tuners, amps, preamps, offered by the same manufacturer. For example, would a combo of the Pioneer SA-9800 and Tx-9800 really sound much better than a SX-1250? I know the power is more with the 1250, but if I remember correctly, the specs are better with the separates.
 
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My worthless experience/observation (Sansui)

Personal experience:
I had an AU-717/TU-717 combo (integrated amp + tuner (Sansui)) and had a chance to compare them to my G-8700db. Both were from the same era (approx) and sold at about the same time. Although the G receiver is rated at twice the power of the AU-717, I prefer listening to the integrated, in fact I will forever kick myself for letting 'er go, the 717 is one of the finest sounding amps I have ever heard. The TU-717 and G receiver's tuner seemed comparable, and both are excellent at pulling in stations clean and quiet, so in my area they were about equal. The G sounds "thinner" than the 717, and even with a massive toroidal transformer, I dont think it could match the independant dual mono supplies in the 717, even though its rails have more voltage. Honest to gosh, I could tell immediately the increased stereo seperation of the 717 on all source material. Internally, there was more attention to detail in the combo with it's metal shields and compartments, however the G's build quality is no slouch either.

Still tough for me to really say for sure, I think a more apples to apples comparison would be a G-8000 or 9000, and I cant say if the same obsevations can be applied to other manufactures offerings, like KR-9600 vs. KA-9100 or SX-1250 vs SA-9500. I'm not sure I'd pay that close of attention to the specs though, since by general audio standards they will all be excellent. Hope this helps.
 
I've lucked upon a SA-9500II and a KA-9150, but I haven't been so lucky as to locate any of their receiver bretheren to compare them to. :worried: yet :naughty:
 
SF,
You sure the G8700 doesn't have dual mono supplies? The G8000 does, all the way back to separate secondary windings in the transformer.
 
I have had several big, TOTL receivers, and several of them (if not all of them) could really fool a person into thinking they were hearing separates.
Especially with the Concept 16.5, Pioneer SX-5590/1250, and the Onkyo TX-8500 Mk II. The Carver Receiver and the KR-9600 were close.
Of course, three of my four systems right now are separates.
 
Lots of variables here. Things like age of your ears, condition of the equipment. Your SX-1250 may sound much better or worse than my SX-1250. Speakers used, CD player used, Phonograph used. Room acoustics. What we need is a nonprofit research facility set up to test all this stuff. We could use Bully's garage.
 
I've noticed that the separates tend to be almost twice as tall in the rack as the receivers, require more cables, and require TWO AC plugs to be inserted. :sigh:

I'm afraid the only taste I seem to have resides in my mouth. :worried:

:D
 
Some comparisons,

I've not had a Pioneer receiver for years except a suspect SX780. I say "suspect" because it puts out an awful lot of bass..and flipping the loudness off and on makes no apparent audible difference..nor does it kick the meters up to any higher output as it should if the loudness circuit is working! I believe it is stuck.."on".

I have had however, a Pioneer SA7700, SA9500ll, a Spec1 & Spec4, and finally a Spec1 & Spec2 pre- poweramp setup all hooked to the same set of a/d/s speakers for the last 15yrs.

All these amps sounded much more alike than different..and much different than the 'suspect' SX780.

The little 7700 integrated was also rated at 60 watts, the same as the receiver, I believe..it's been a while. Anyhow, it was much higher on the clear, clean, well defined, balanced and Oh yeah that's Nice sound factors than the receiver even thinks about being. No doubt.

As for the 9500ll...it was hard to tell the difference from the Spec1/4 system. An 80 watt integrated with dual mono design..seperate transformers etc..it sounded nearly identical to the Spec setup..nearly. The Spec's did have more definition, bass and soundstage, but not by much. As far as my memory goes anyway, and memory can be a funny thing :)

Now the Spec 2..at 250watts a side, that's a different story!! The sound just leaps out of the speakers, with definition and presence. At any volume. Bass with "air" around the instrument..soundstaging beyond anything I've ever owned..or heard besides a McIntosh setup.

The integrateds had about the same kind of qualities..and all of the amps are clear and clean..but the Spec 2 is clearly in a class by itself here.
 
G-8700 / G-8000

Doc,
Yes, I'm pretty sure, and I think this is where the early 80's G-x700 units differed from the late 70's G-x000. The internal layout of the 8700 is not symmetrical in the amp (rear of unit) like the 8000 and 9000, with it's centrally mounted dual secondary transformer and quad flanked oval capacitors. The tranny in the G-8700 is in the left rear corner and there are only two filter caps (not oval) that I do not believe are the compound type, so again, I'm pretty sure the 8700 is not dual mono. The G-9700 may be - dunno, but I will pop the top on mine and double check this since You asked, unless there is someone else who owns one and can verify. It had to be really expensive to build'em like the G-8000/G-9000, SX 1250, etc., and I just figured that this is where they first started cutting cost at the end of the "vintage" era. I'll bet the G-8000 has lots more juice at 4 ohm's than the 8700, despite the 40 watt rating difference at 8 ohm.
 
mobybud....ads speakers

Which A/D/S do you have? I had a pr of L810s from 1980...wonderful speakers, butyl surrounds that never rot, etc, sold on the bay 2 yrs ago for nearly $400. Great sounding with the Hafler amp I had at the time.

Always wanted the massive 910s that my friend had.

Both are rare...especially the latter.
 
What new equipment compares to the Pioneer Spec series? What new equipment would compare to a SX-1250? With maintenance issues we all have, or will have, with older equipment, I might go new. I'm sure that would cost a pretty penny. Can you imagine what they would charge for a new SX-1250?
 
Bordeno,

a/d/s L810 ll's...very nearly the same as yours. Dual 8 inch bass drivers..dome midrange..dome tweeters..Mmmmm I've tried long and hard to find something I like better,,but I just can't. Aint it sad? :d

Paid $200 for mine at a pawn shop years ago..salesman misquoted the price, they wanted $400! But he sold them to me for the quoted price irregardless..my single best stereo buy ever!
 
VintageNut said:
What new equipment compares to the Pioneer Spec series? What new equipment would compare to a SX-1250? With maintenance issues we all have, or will have, with older equipment, I might go new. I'm sure that would cost a pretty penny. Can you imagine what they would charge for a new SX-1250?
Click to expand...

What new compares to Spec series?? Well, something like this I suppose, only about I dunno, 4-5 thousand??

As for a "new" receiver comparable to an SX1250, no such beast exists, that I'm aware of. Makers don't hardly even produce 2 channel receivers anymore..and as for those huge home theater receivers,,forget it. Not even close.
 
a/d/s Speakers

These are my babys, in my current temporary setup. I've removed the Specs and put my SX780 in the cabinet.

I just got some pictures taken of my lil system, so here goes..first post of *my* stuff on AK

:naughty:
 
Kinda dark :( hard to see but the a/d/s 810's are sitting on stands I built for them..risers really with slight upward angle built in. Filled with solid styrofoam for decoupling from the floor.

Damn nice sound..really.
 
Thanks jguzman!

It does sound sweet. All analog, all Vintage. Love the look of the Akai deck and the Pioneer table just sittin out' there :)
 
Seperates vs Receivers

Pioneer SX-1250 in top condition vs Fort'e model 3
1) Using the 1250's preamp section = No Difference
2) Using Adcom GFP-565 = Seperates were noticably better

Pioneer SX-1250 vs RB-981 Rotel / C-4 Yamaha
1) Winner = Rotel even at 130wpc

Pioneer SX-1250 vs Adcom GFA-555II / Adcom GFP-565
1) Winner = Adcom

Pioneer SX-1250 vs Sansui AU-9500
1) Winner = SX-1250 (closer than I would have thought)

Pioneer SX-1050 vs Kenwood KA-9100
1) Winner = KA-9100

Pioneer SX-1050 vs Pioneer SA-9100
1) Winner = SA-9100 (even at half the power)

Pioneer SX-1050 vs Sansui AU-9500
1) Winner = AU-9500

These are the only ones that I made the effort to compare and not use my "memory" to decide. From my experience seperates "generally" offer better sound, more flexibility. There are always exceptions to the rule however.

Age old question. . . seperate owners say seperates and receiver owners say receivers. . . All in the eye of the beholder.
 
Good Lord Man, you are more of a vintage nut than I am. Get some help. I'm surprised you found time to have a baby....I'm showing my friends your list above when they call me sicko for vintage....Thanks for your time comparing, I bet it was a labor of love....
 
My previous comment was about 'fooling' someone (or yourself) who wasn't aware of the system playing. Not comparing them. With some of those big TOTL receivers, you can come close. That said, as I noted earlier, three of my four systems here are separates.
Not now, but a while ago, I had systems everywhere, and I could forget which one was playing. Sometimes I had to check a few times to find the right one. :scratch2:
 
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