Serial numbers

[CopperWizard]

What does it mean exactly if the serial numbers on a set of speakers are not consecutive. The numbers on the back of my Marantz Imperial 6 are 19859 and 19873. I just figured that they were specially matched from a group or batch. I would love to hear more information about serial numbers and why consecutive would be so coveted other than numeral perfection. The obvious things would be the use of internals and such to be matched as close as possible. Do a "set" of speakers with consecutive serial numbers go through a finishing process together? :scratch2: Thanks in advance for the info, I'm a speaker sponge these days..

 

[Bostown]

Unless the components, vendor materials or design changes, then serial numbers meant nothing for most speakers ( for the consumer) when i worked in manufacturing. The numbers are for tracking purposes, we could narrow down production dates, and other data and record issues down to a specific run cycle if any occurred etc.

Mirrored sets of speakers were sometimes matched within a particular spec. In that case the speakers were labeled with the same serial number and designated A and B

The rest is just marketplace mania and seller marketing. Its now viral that sequential serial numbers are an imporatnt buying point. We live in a "me too" society so when Johnny markets his used speaker as having sequential serial numbers and makes $50 more for his pair , Billy will try it too. And then soon it hits a tipping point where it becomes something of importance for buyers. Because someone else said it was important.

Others will say that its critical or at least somewhat important. And thats fine for them and their rationale, im not interested in starting an argument. Folks are perfectly ok to seek out matched serial numbers if they like. I certainly wont pay a premium for sequential serial numbered speakers and its not a deal breaker for me. Im just not swayed by voodoo selling tactics.

 

[Yamaki]

Doesn't mean a thing.

It's nice to get a sequentially numbered pair but from a sound reproduction standpoint, it is pretty much meaningless.

 

[BankShot]

It just happened that all four sets of the speakers I currently use are in fact consecutively serial numbered. All it means is that one speaker was manufactured and assembled on the line right before or right after the other one. Makes absolutely no difference how they sound versus a pair that were randomly selected. About the only time it might make a small difference is when, as was stated in an above post, the speakers are made as a mirrored pair and did in fact go thru some factory tweaking to make them a tad better sounding together as a pair overall. That's my take on it and only my take. Others may differ with it so let them chime in if they so want to............

 

[moebuster]

i think it means the warehouse guy grabbed two that came off the line together and that the delivery guy unloaded them at the deaer side by side and the saleman grabbed the same pair when Johnny bought them.

 

[janikphoto]

You have to realize that when a company makes ten thousand speakers, to make five thousand pairs, to ship out to a thousand different stores, keeping consecutive numbered pairs isn't a big concern! It's nice to know they were made on the same day, which close numbers will have a better chance of being... but, it's just a vanity thing for most average speaker pairs.

 

[Stuart Pedaso]

Having consecutive serial numbers assures they were built during the same phase of the moon. That's important because cosmic balance enhances music enjoyment.

Which is not the same thing as voodoo, exactly ...

 

[cablephil212]

Having consecutive serial numbers assures they were built during the same phase of the moon. That's important because cosmic balance enhances music enjoyment.

Which is not the same thing as voodoo, exactly ...

:lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao:

Truth.

 

[dc270]

Having consecutive serial numbers assures they were built during the same phase of the moon. That's important because cosmic balance enhances music enjoyment.

Which is not the same thing as voodoo, exactly ...

Who do your voodoo?
DC

 

[Bostown]

:lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao:

Truth.

Who do your voodoo?
DC

Then There's still the issue with

" the relevance of near field electromagnetic (EM) interaction to audio reproduction quality, specifically to the coloration of sound." that only Less Loss Audio's BlackBody Ambient Field Conditioner can tackle properly. but alas, these $1500 wonders are no longer available and replaced by of course...

A Dynamic Filtering Power Cable. because SKIN FILTERING apparently solves the same issues they were gabbering about with their quantum physics theory based ambient field conditioner. their reference series power cable is a smoking deal at only $1824 A bargain to keep the demons of EM interference from getting into your system and screwing up your listening experience.

Mismatched serial numbers on speakers are NO match for the power of the DFPC! - Only thing Missing is Miss Cleo delivering the pitch.

But I digress.

 

[Zonker92]

Only time having matching (or at least close) serial numbers meant something to me, was with my JBL L26 Decades where the foilcals are slightly different. One has numbers marking the tweeter L-pad level and the other has dots. Or something. I figure, if the serial numbers had been closer together the foilcals would probably have matched. And on JBL 4430s and 4435s, the earliest and latest numbered ones have different horn drivers from the middle ones.

So for models that went through some production changes, it does tend to give some assurance that all the parts are matched.

 

[Copa1934]

What does it mean exactly if the serial numbers on a set of speakers are not consecutive. The numbers on the back of my Marantz Imperial 6 are 19859 and 19873. I just figured that they were specially matched from a group or batch. I would love to hear more information about serial numbers and why consecutive would be so coveted other than numeral perfection. The obvious things would be the use of internals and such to be matched as close as possible. Do a "set" of speakers with consecutive serial numbers go through a finishing process together? :scratch2: Thanks in advance for the info, I'm a speaker sponge these days..

First, getting sequential anything is hit or miss, likely miss. Just the way it goes as inventory is moved to holding, then shipping, etc. So, the big deal is that rarely do people buy them this way so the novelty is very high in acquiring them this way. It's just plane rare. Period.

Performance wise there IS a likelyhood that one speaker may sound, ever so slightly, different from it's mate, IF the numbers are off far ENOUGH. The most radical example I can give is when Alnico became short in supply, forcing change to ceramic. I have a set of matching speakers, one with an Alnico woofer, the other ceramic. After I've done the surrounds I'll perform tests and post in a separate posting.

If a manufacturers supplier changes, goes out of business, etc. and the speaker manufacturer has to go with different materials (cone material, wire for windings, etc.) then the final product can, and likely will change, again ever so slightly. This doesn't, however, preclude the manufacturer from communicating this, changing part numbers, etc.

Another example might be Pioneer HPM speakers. The part number changes are staggering. But without published numbers to reference it's difficult to say precisely what is different. I've confirmed a couple things, but sonically I can't say with certainty there IS a difference.

One more. Advent/1 (early and late). I have both, drivers appear to be the same (no part numbers) and networks appear to be the same. Differences? Besides age (affecting caps) and the surrounds mounted differently (early are front mount, late are rear mount), the later models sound better to me. Disparity of serial numbers aside, these are "supposed" to be the same speakers.

Last point. I've tested many drivers and while manufacturers like JBL have drivers that more often read identical in impedance, they don't read the same using DATS software (for T/S) specs.

Sonically this may all be mute. While software may be able to detect differences in drivers, that's no guarantee that you will hear the difference. Only one instance where I was clearly able to distinguish the difference between "same" drivers and that was a set of Mach One Midrange drivers. Had three, at the time, to work with. And of those they ALL read differently, they all sounded different. I settled on the two that were closest in T/S and sonic quality. In the "system" I can't tell the difference between the two, yet I could listening to just the drivers alone.

 

[drumiv]

I think most of the answers here are valid. It doesn't mean much sonically, but, from a collectors standpoint, to me anyway, it's desirable. I've had many set's of JBL L100's, and the 1 set I've kept has them. Do they sound any better than the others? No. As was stated, it's hit or miss, and most likely miss, so this makes them a little more rare. IMHO.

 

[bowtie427ss]

Totally agree with the above posts in regard to many of the supermarket quality speakers most often discussed here.

However, when you filter out the purely subjective BS from the above posts and start shopping high resolution, high accuracy monitors, you'll find they are often built as matched pairs with ALL of the transducers and electrical components being hand picked, evaluated, tested, and finally matched such that the voicing, impedance, sensitivity, filter knee points and slopes, and ESR of each filter section are as precisely close as possible.

With some high quality loudspeakers, if they don't have matching or consecutive S/N's, you do not have a matched pair, simple as that. While the differences may be small, even too small to be audible to the average listener, they are quite real, measurable, and marketable.

 

[Bostown]

Totally agree with the above posts in regard to many of the supermarket quality speakers most often discussed here.

However, when you filter out the purely subjective BS from the above posts and start shopping high resolution, high accuracy monitors, you'll find they are often built as matched pairs with ALL of the transducers and electrical components being hand picked, evaluated, tested, and finally matched such that the voicing, impedance, sensitivity, filter knee points and slopes, and ESR of each filter section are as precisely close as possible.

With some high quality loudspeakers, if they don't have matching or consecutive S/N's, you do not have a matched pair, simple as that. While the differences may be small, even too small to be audible to the average listener, they are quite real, measurable, and marketable.

I can get with most of this except the "purely subjective BS" part. - ( Karma brother, Love peace and Chicken Grease)

Some "Grey Poupon" speaker manufacturers will, as stated earlier amongst the other Subjective BS posts, will use the Same serial number on their Matched speakers (where drivers spec nearly identical, components within x tolerance ,cabinet wood grains and color very closely matched , blah blah blah High end , elite , pinky out sippy cup stuff etc )and designate one as SN xxx-xx-xxxxA and SN xxx-xx-xxxxB.

Yep, I'm definitely the Average Listener but I can live with that. the day I get wrapped up in marketability of my speakers based on their matching serial numbers, Tightly matched components, and factory worker DNA is the day that i should strongly consider pulling a Kurt Cobain.

if the Fit, finish and sound are equal.. ****, I'm good! Life's too short and I'm too dumb and too poor to sweat those highly ABOVE average audiophile details. I mean really, I'm still listening to Norah Jones for crying out loud. That's one step up from gutter music to a SERIOUS Audiophile ( it's weird how the word "SERIOUS" always precedes "Audiophile" , are there no "just effin around" "Audiophiles"?, or "Somewhat Passively interested" Audiophiles? ... something to ponder for another thread perhaps)

Audio Plebeians UNITE! Now excuse me while I crank up these mismatched serial number Bose 301's and crank me up some Dubstep! wuuuub wuuuub wuuuub!

 

[Copa1934]

I can get with most of this except the "purely subjective BS" part. - ( Karma brother, Love peace and Chicken Grease)

Some "Grey Poupon" speakers manufacturers will, as stated earlier amongst the other Subjective BS posts, will use the Same serial number on their Matched speakers (where drivers spec nearly identical, components within x tolerance ,cabinet wood grains and color very closely matched , blah blah blah High end , elite , pinky out sippy cup stuff etc )and designate one as SN xxx-xx-xxxxA and SN xxx-xx-xxxxB.

Yep, I'm definitely the Average Listener but I can live with that. the day I get wrapped up in marketability of my speakers based on their matching serial numbers, Tightly matched components, and factory worker DNA is the day should strongly consider pulling a Kurt Cobain.

if the Fit, finish and sound are equal.. ****, I'm good! Life's too short and I'm too dumb and too poor to sweat those highly ABOVE average audiophile details. I mean really, I'm still listening to Norah Jones for crying out loud. That's one step up from gutter music to a SERIOUS Audiophile ( it's weird how the word "SERIOUS" always precedes "Audiophile" , are there no "just effin around" "Audiophiles"?, or "Somewhat Passively interested" Audiophiles? ... something to ponder for another thread perhaps)

Audio Plebeians UNITE! Now excuse me while I crank up these mismatched serial number Bose 301's and crank me up some Dubstep! wuuuub wuuuub wuuuub!

Speaking of Bose (love your rant by the way), when the 901 Series II were introduced they had "matched" drivers, all 18 or them. So, by the above definition that would put them in the upper stratosphere of listening karma, eh? I have to double check but I think my JBL L88 Nova speakers are sequential. And both are equally ear splitting.

Now, if my 1970 El Camino SS/396 were "numbers matching" that would be sweet.

 

[drumiv]

I can get with most of this except the "purely subjective BS" part. - ( Karma brother, Love peace and Chicken Grease)

Some "Grey Poupon" speaker manufacturers will, as stated earlier amongst the other Subjective BS posts, will use the Same serial number on their Matched speakers (where drivers spec nearly identical, components within x tolerance ,cabinet wood grains and color very closely matched , blah blah blah High end , elite , pinky out sippy cup stuff etc )and designate one as SN xxx-xx-xxxxA and SN xxx-xx-xxxxB.

Yep, I'm definitely the Average Listener but I can live with that. the day I get wrapped up in marketability of my speakers based on their matching serial numbers, Tightly matched components, and factory worker DNA is the day that i should strongly consider pulling a Kurt Cobain.

if the Fit, finish and sound are equal.. ****, I'm good! Life's too short and I'm too dumb and too poor to sweat those highly ABOVE average audiophile details. I mean really, I'm still listening to Norah Jones for crying out loud. That's one step up from gutter music to a SERIOUS Audiophile ( it's weird how the word "SERIOUS" always precedes "Audiophile" , are there no "just effin around" "Audiophiles"?, or "Somewhat Passively interested" Audiophiles? ... something to ponder for another thread perhaps)

Audio Plebeians UNITE! Now excuse me while I crank up these mismatched serial number Bose 301's and crank me up some Dubstep! wuuuub wuuuub wuuuub!

Now THAT was pretty funny.

 

[classicform]

I'm more interested in close or matching serial numbers for the outward appearance, not component matching. The veneer used when making the cabinets, if serial numbers are too far apart, may be different enough to really bother me.
I have a set of JBL Minigons and if they weren't matched on the outside I wouldn't have bought them. When set next to each other the top veneer sheets look like one long continuos piece.
Think of veneered drawer fronts on a chest of drawers, if put out of sequence the veneer doesn't line up one drawer to the next.

 

[bowtie427ss]

( it's weird how the word "SERIOUS" always precedes "Audiophile" , are there no "just effin around" "Audiophiles"?, or "Somewhat Passively interested" Audiophiles? ... something to ponder for another thread perhaps)

Certainly, all of the above exist, generally in increasing quantity as you descend the ladder of seriousness.

Replace the word "audiophile" with another noun like "racer", "angler", "brewer", "hunter", "diver", "vintage audio technician", etc etc. Most of the same truths apply.

 

[bowtie427ss]

( it's weird how the word "SERIOUS" always precedes "Audiophile" , are there no "just effin around" "Audiophiles"?, or "Somewhat Passively interested" Audiophiles? ... something to ponder for another thread perhaps)

Certainly, all of the above exist, generally in increasing quantity as you descend the ladder of seriousness.

Replace the word "audiophile" with another noun like "racer", "angler", "brewer", "hunter", "diver", "vintage audio technician", etc etc. Most of the same truths apply.

I'm more interested in close or matching serial numbers for the outward appearance, not component matching.

Another good point. :yes:

Has anyone mentioned "revisions" yet?

Ask any of the fellas here with board level experience how often they encounter PC boards with their revision designation clearly printed on them.