SET Owners: What speaker are you using now or have previously employed?

[MikE]

Thanks Gentlemen

No need to apologize about the lenght of a post. I'm usually the verbose one. I was interested in hearing your observations for two reasons. I thought it might help others reading this thread familiarize themselves with the various SET systems people use and the results they have observed. The other reason was personal. I'm still looking for the "ideal" sepaker to mate with the Moth and the Cornwalls have always been mentioned. Perhaps not "ideal" but pocessing a certain magical quality. At the moment I don't have the room to let the Klipsch breathe. And have found the Silverlines to be very "room friendly", functioning well in my old loft and in their current near field space.

MikE

 

[Fishstink]

My Speakers

I run Paramours and feed them into the following speakers:

Big Altecs from the late 50's (16ohm) custom cabs with no model numbers. They are 2 ways with a 15" driver and a 13" x 2" multicelled horn.

EV Marquis also from the 50's (16ohm) three way t-35, t-100 and 12" EV drivers.

Klipsch Chorus I. I just got these 2 days ago, (8ohm) and still getting used to them. They can be bright and sometimes shrill. I was able to tame them quite a bit by tube rolling. I switched output tubes from EH Gold (which sound great with the 2 above speakers) to Tung Sol (NOS) which go way low on my amps, but lack some in the HF. It made a large difference. Then I rolled old mullard 12au7 into the B'head pre and it did even better. Next I will try some cleartops in there.

I can't discern which speakers sound better than one another. I can discern that each is very satisfying. I'm not going back to SS, not with these speakers and the SET sound.

 

[Mike Stehr]

Fishstink,

I had Chorus II's, and like you mention they can be shrill. And like you mention, using tubes can help the issue.

I dunno about the Chorus I, but the Chorus II's had some rather cheap crossovers. They used Mylar capacitors for tweeters, and cheap electrolytics for the midhorn and woofer. Mounted on a PCB.

I went hog-wild and spent 250 bucks making new crossovers using the stock values. It did help tame the shrillness.

You don't necessarily have to get that deep, but if the Chorus I has a electrolytic for the midhorn and mylars for the tweeter, swapping them out for some decent film and foil caps may help the issue.
I tried a 6 uF Solen metalized polypropelene for the midhorn, and wasn't terribly impressed. Too tizzy.......I ended up using a North Creek 6 uF Crescendo cap and that helped smooth things out quite a bit.

The 'lytic on the woofer probably isn't that much of a big deal, but the midhorn and tweeter can benefit from better quality caps.
Klipsch makes good bang for the buck speakers, but they did get rather cheap with the crossover parts.
Maybe not so much with the heritage speakers that used motor run oil caps, but more with the newer lines of Forte, Chorus, etc.....

Even the motor run caps over time tend to get dead sounding, and I'm sure this applies to electrolytics as well. After 20 years, the crossovers can always stand some fresh caps.

Something to ponder over........

 

[Kegger]

Mike, "I'm still looking for the "ideal" sepaker" Yes I say that quite frequently too!

It will more then likely be something I end up building. I tend to like large 3-way systems.
Also I'm really liking dome mids lately to. So it will probably be a 12" 3-way with dome mid and tweet.
Now I just gotta find the dome mid and tweet with around 95 or higher sens with good impeadence curves that I like. LOL!

No one would happen to know a speaker that closely resembles that description do they? Just curious.

 

[mhardy6647]

For "ideal" SET speakers, I think you're talking Altec VOT's, Altec 604's (choose your favorite suffix), or Edgarhorn Titans (plus Seismic Subwoofer). I've heard nothing better than the aforementioned trio.

 

[Billfort]

Now that I agree with Mark.

 

[PakProtector]

Now that I agree with Mark.

Not that it exists yet, but robbon elements down to frequency covered by a sub would be ideal. No delta-Z with frequency. Already ribbon elements down to a few hundred hertz...

With a constant Z, one could run straight gm amps built with pentodes too...

What ever is good for SET is good for all sorts of other amps.
cheers,
Douglas

 

[doug s.]

Not that it exists yet, but robbon elements down to frequency covered by a sub would be ideal. No delta-Z with frequency. Already ribbon elements down to a few hundred hertz...

With a constant Z, one could run straight gm amps built with pentodes too...

What ever is good for SET is good for all sorts of other amps.
cheers,
Douglas

as i have mentioned prewiously, my 40w audio mirror 6c33c set monobloc amps sounded great driving the vmps rm40's from ~280hz on up. more than enuff gain for those 4 ohm 90db-efficient mondo ribbon speakers. <280hz, the rm40's use 10" woofers; these were being driven by s/s amplification...

doug s.

 

[jt1stcav]

With my 8 WPC 300B SET power amp and 6SN7 SRPP linestage pre, my all original '79 Cornwalls were more than capable at 98.5dB sensitivity. But like others on this thread, my tiny listening room is way too small for the horns to breath properly, resulting in harshness at high levels (I'm sure their original networks need upgrading). So now they're in storage in a walk-in closet awaiting the day I can relocate my entire system to the huge living room, where the Cornwalls will have all the breathing room they'll ever need.

I first replaced the Cornwalls with 2005 Athena Technologies model AS-F2 towers from their Audition Series (8 ohms, efficient at 93dB, with a frequency response of 35Hz - 20kHz). Great loudspeakers for the money, but IMO they were lacking the warmth and fullness of the Cornwalls...maybe not the best loudspeakers for SET amplification soundwise, but plenty capable of handling the 300Bs rated power.

The Athenas sounded magnificent through my brother's Panasonic class-D digital receiver, and he had a pair of '98 Triangle Electroacoustique Zephyr 2-way towers he wanted to replace, so we swapped loudspeakers. The Zephyrs (at 91dB efficiency into 4 ohms, with a frequency response of 45Hz - 20kHz) seemed more tolerable to my SET amp; they sounded much fuller, and their cellulose woofers put out a punchier bass response than did my Athenas at a 10Hz lower rating! There was an air and clarity about them; they were fast and precise, which reminded me of my old Magnepans. And they were extremely dynamic and musical, especially with female vocals...they even sounded much bigger than they really were. They'd play loud too, up to 90dB and more before any noticable clipping occured...SWEET!

Awhile later I came across a demo pair of 2001 Loth-X Audio Amaze single-driver bookshelf monitors, from their Ion Series. They were priced so ridiculously low that it was a no-brainer, and by far the best bargain for SET-friendly loudspeakers I've ever encountered! They're rated at 55Hz - 20kHz with a sensitivity of 96dB @ 1 watt/1 meter, and a nominal impedance of 8 ohms. These solid cherry monitors are perfect for SET topology; they're well balanced and full-bodied in the mids with clean shimmering highs...you'd think you were listening to seperate drivers. At 96dB, they're super efficient, and an easy load for my 8 WPC amp. Vocals are life-like and float in air, and on excellent recordings sound very live and dynamic! In my tiny listening room the Amaze simply amaze (pun intended) with their spot-on imaging. These monitors are simply the best suited loudspeakers for SET I've heard yet, whereas the venerable Cornwalls would be best suited for the large living room. IMO the Zephyrs would work equally well in both rooms, but the AS-F2s only in a large room, preferably with PP, SS, and digital amplification.

Just my opinion, y'all... :thmbsp:

 

[grumpy]

After Hearing Billforts 300B amp on My new AN Kit speakers I have to rethink smaller SET amps. Sure it was a little bass shy but everything was terrific !

 

[MikE]

Dave

Earlier in the thread you said "My first SET amp really turned me off to them." What amp was that?

Did Bill let you take home your AN's? Or does he still need to "tweak'em"? :yes: :nono: MikE

 

[MikE]

Thanks for sharing Jim. Sounds like you've covered all the bases; horns, floor standers and mini monitors. Am I assuming correctly the Cornwalls are your speaker of choice with all things being equal. Could you expand on that? I know what you mean about SETs and mini monitors. My Sonatinas image very well but not like a mini monitor, even my very average Signet SL260's. I think I could live with a really nice mini that had some bass action. :yes:

MikE

 

[grumpy]

Earlier in the thread you said "My first SET amp really turned me off to them." What amp was that?

Did Bill let you take home your AN's? Or does he still need to "tweak'em"? :yes: :nono: MikE

My first amp was an Audio Note Oto. hard to find exact number on anything made by AN but the consensus on the web is its about 9 watts. It had some problems so back it went so that could be contributing to some of my bias against it.

Yes the AN's came home with me and are still being broken in. So far I like what i hear but the break in has a way to go.

 

[MikE]

Psuedo SET

As you're finding out not all SETs are equal. There are major differences between Bill's 300b amp and the Oto. Aside from the different circuit topology, driver tubes, operating parameters and parts used the 300b is a directly heated triode and the EL84 is indirected heated triode. A true DHT is more linear and usually exhibits less distortion.

MikE

 

[tubino]

I have monkeyed with a lot of SET and other tube amps. I got lucky when I bought some Harmonic Precision Echelon floorstanding speakers, because they work well with low-powered amps. I didn't know at the time that the series crossover design means they don't drop below 7.5 ohms, and don't go much higher either. I think they are 90db, but work better with a watt or two than that number would suggest. I used them for a couple of months with a tiny WE 417A amp I built -- less than 1 wpc!

These speakers haven't been made for a while now. They retailed for $2500, IIRC, and got a review comparing them favorably to $4K speakers. They don't sound boxy, and they are time/phase coherent. I've since replaced them in my system with Tannoys (dual concentric = still more coherent to my ears). I'm the original owner, have the original boxes. Drop me a line if interested -- I could probably get them to AK Fest for folks to hear them, try them with tiny tube amps etc. Heck, I'd be curious myself to hear them A-B with the Tannoys on the same amp setup.

 

[jt1stcav]

Thanks for sharing Jim. Sounds like you've covered all the bases; horns, floor standers and mini monitors. Am I assuming correctly the Cornwalls are your speaker of choice with all things being equal. Could you expand on that? I know what you mean about SETs and mini monitors. My Sonatinas image very well but not like a mini monitor, even my very average Signet SL260's. I think I could live with a really nice mini that had some bass action. :yes:

MikE

Yeah, my Cornwalls are my speaker of choice, due to their large sound. Played at near-live levels in a large room (when my dad had them in the living room of our house many years ago), they just fill all that open space with music so effortlessly; there's no strain or compression in their dynamics, and it only takes a few high-quality watts to blast you into next week with an SPL of 120dB or more!

Whether it's Lenny Kravitz's American Woman played to concert levels, or the splendor of Jean Guillou playing the Notre Dame Cathedral organ in Grande Tutti...in the proper room (i.e. large) these horn speakers have that in-your-face liveness about them that others have a harder time trying to convey, at least to my ears. Except for the mighty Klipschorns (with its smoother midrange and deeper bass response), I can't find too many other loudspeakers that can top 'em without spending a large fortune!

Introduced in the late '50s, discontinued in '85, and now brought back from the dead in 2006 as the Cornwall III, their attraction hasn't waned a bit after all these years. Used Cornwalls are still highly prized...I'm just glad I've got mine! :yes:

 

[DanTana]

I have the speakers for a SET amp, but have yet to get one. I hope to sometime this summer, my plan is to get a 2A3/300B amp so I can experiment with the different tubes. Probably something I can DIY or modify using different circuit topologies. My speakers are Altec Valencias probably about 100db efficient. I'm using a PP 6V6 amp now with 0 NFB and triode wired. More than enough power for the Altecs.

 

[Markus111]

Ok, I may meet with some skepticism here, but has anyone tried any of the big Cerwin Vega speakers with SETs? The reason I'm curious is that the reported sensitivity on some of these models is above 100db.

Mark

 

[doug s.]

Thanks for sharing Jim. Sounds like you've covered all the bases; horns, floor standers and mini monitors. Am I assuming correctly the Cornwalls are your speaker of choice with all things being equal. Could you expand on that? I know what you mean about SETs and mini monitors. My Sonatinas image very well but not like a mini monitor, even my very average Signet SL260's. I think I could live with a really nice mini that had some bass action. :yes:

MikE

hi mike,

this post has me wondering - i am familiar w/two floorstanding speakers that image up there w/the *best* mini monitors, not yust average ones - thiels, & my present coincident victorys. hmmm... (in fairness, while i haven't heard your signets, i have heard folks say they image a lot better than average, fwiw....)

re: mini monitors & bass - you really need to try a decent subwoofer set-up! i have a pair of proac tablette reference 8 signatures - absolutely *tiny* - 6"w x 10.5"h x 9"d, w/a 4.5" (!?!) woofer. i had these set up in a ~26x38x8.5 room, & they did *everything* - including getting as loud & dynamic as you could stand - as long as they were cut off at 80hz, where my pair of vmps larger subs took over... in that room, i preferred, but only by a small margin, my meret re's - small monitors w/a focal inwertrd dome tweet, & an eton 6.5" midwoofer.

best,

doug s.

 

[MikE]

Somehow I missed your post Doug. Been engaged pretty heavy in a thread on the General Forum. I'm sure your floor standers are very nice. The audio salon down the road stocked Thiels, ProAc among others [Wilson, Avalon, ML] and those two were my preference for auditioning EQ. Don't think I could live with the Thiel's [too edgy] but they were fun to check out. And the ProAc's were a tad too sleepy for my tastes but overall they're nice. I usually gravatated toward the floor standers but occationally listened to the monitors. I always heard they were nice with SET but the store didn't carry any and once I got my SET I was no longer inclined to listen to other systems. Besides they were getting a little miffed whenever I'd bring in my stuff only to have it walk over their gear! I did that my Shunyata Hydra PLC vs the PS Audio and now they carry Shunyata. Hmmmm...

I think you're right I should check out a mini/sub but I'm pushing things as it is with the 2wpc Moth driving the 93db Silverlines. The tablette signature's are even less efficient! :sigh: Still if I went with a ballsy 300b maybe it would work but I'm hooked on these psychedelic 45's. I do love imaging and a w-i-d-e soundstage. There's just so many cool components and ways to go at replay. Some swear by horns and flea amps and others love 'stats and muscle amps, and the mini/sub thing combo is fun too. I don't know if I want to tempt fate by trading in what I've enjoyed for 4 years. :scratch2:

I'm surpprised you own Thiel and ProAc as they seem polar opposites. Both nice just different. I'm guessing the Coincident are somewhere in the middle. MikE