I just received my DL160 cartridge and a spare headshell for my Denon DP-300f. The cartridge comes with a plastic gauge to adjust overhang. However, the gauge doesn't work with the angled headshell such used on the 300f. I could compare and try to match the overhang to the original cartridge/headshell, but was wondering if there was a better way?
Setting up a DL160 on my DP-300f
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Old_Tech
Yer-isn't!
Use the "stupid" protractor at Vinyl Engine. Go there and take a look it works well and prints to scale. I was fortunate to have a protractor come with my Shure so I use it.
rexrider
Active Member
To start, you need to know what the overhang setting is. The manual for the TT should have that.
The Denon gauge has a 38mm line on it. IF your TT overhang is 38mm, you are in luck.
Place the tail end of the head shell with the cart mounted into the cut at the end of the gauge, keeping the head shell parallel with the gauge . Even thought the cart is going to be angled with the needle off to the side of the gauge, that is okay. The needle should be brought up to the line to set the overhang. Square the cart and check again.
If the correct overhang does not meet any of the lines on the gauge, you can use a small tape measure or caliper to measure from the base to the needle.
I don't know exactly what that head shell looks like but this is how it is done with the head shell from my Denon 47f
ETA: Or you can use a protractor as Old_Tech suggested
The Denon gauge has a 38mm line on it. IF your TT overhang is 38mm, you are in luck.
Place the tail end of the head shell with the cart mounted into the cut at the end of the gauge, keeping the head shell parallel with the gauge . Even thought the cart is going to be angled with the needle off to the side of the gauge, that is okay. The needle should be brought up to the line to set the overhang. Square the cart and check again.
If the correct overhang does not meet any of the lines on the gauge, you can use a small tape measure or caliper to measure from the base to the needle.
I don't know exactly what that head shell looks like but this is how it is done with the head shell from my Denon 47f
ETA: Or you can use a protractor as Old_Tech suggested
hakaplan
Needs professional help
I don't understand why a gauge was included with the cartridge, unless it's really a protractor. Gauges are specific to turntables, not cartridges.
There are two protractors at vinylengine to consider using, Baerwald and Stevenson. Baerwald pushes the cartridge forward in the headshell, Stevenson brings it back, so use whichever works out best.
As rexrider stated, if there is a measurement specified in the DP-300F manual, you could certainly use that as an easy shortcut to alignment.
There are two protractors at vinylengine to consider using, Baerwald and Stevenson. Baerwald pushes the cartridge forward in the headshell, Stevenson brings it back, so use whichever works out best.
As rexrider stated, if there is a measurement specified in the DP-300F manual, you could certainly use that as an easy shortcut to alignment.
rexrider
Active Member
Denon's gage can be used with different TT. Most* of Denon's angled head shells have a 38mm overhang. There is a line that measures the 38mm over hang for those specific headshells.
Then there are additional lines to use for Technics and similar head shells. There is a scale that runs from 47mm up to 53mm. Technics's overhang is 52 mm so the gauge works for those quite well. I think it is easier using the Denon gauge then the Technics gauge that is shipped with its TTs.
The catch is there is no scale between 38mm and 47mm or less then 38mm. So of the overhang for that table isn't any of those measurements, then the gauge is useless.
*I say most because I know of Denon TTs that have a 35mm overhang. The 37f being one of them. In this case their own gauge won't work. I will guess the 37f was made before Denon made the gauge.
hakaplan
Needs professional help
Actually, it's just the opposite. Of the Denons where the measurement is specified in the manual (DP-35F, DP-45F, DP-37F), more are 35mm. To my knowledge the DP-47F is the only one that's 38mm. If you know of another, I'd like to know what it is.
Also, providing an alignment gauge without telling you what the measurement is for each tt is worthless. You have to already know what that measurement is, and in that case you can use a ruler or caliper.
Clearly if Denon used at least two different measurements it its original tts with angled, removable headshells, and there is nothing stated in the DP-300F manual, there is no way you can simply assume what it is. This tt is new, manufactured two decades after the previous ones and by essentially a different company.
rexrider
Active Member
I stand corrected on the "common" overhang for Denon head shells. I know they have two styles for their straight arms. There is a long one and a short one. My old 35F had the short while my 47F has the long one. I "assumed" (oops) the long style was the more common one.
(In my previous post I said 37f, I had a 35f)
I will however say that I never assumed the gauge could be used or what the overhang was. I was pointing out it might be able to be used. But the first thing needed was the "official" overhang measurement of the 300F. The gauge is worthless with out that info.
I was merely going over how to use it if, by chance, the actual overhang for the 300F matched the scale on the gauge.
And yes, it seems silly to include a gauge without a full usable scale that could be used with their own name brand turntables (same company or not, they should have known their own product line specs, even the older ones)
Old_Tech
Yer-isn't!
I have become confused
Where do I place the protractor on the platter once it is centered at the spindle? When I try to think the calibration through I seem to think that no matter where I adjust the overhang I can move the protractor to line up with the stylus. I have forgotten something totally here and I am not sure what it is. I am aligning the 97xE with the Shure protractor. First I move the cartridge in over the outer target and adjust the overhang. Then I move the protractor and check it at the center and it is correct. Now, whats to stop me from having the protractor in the wrong spot in the first place therefore making the overhang adjustment seem correct? What have I forgotten? I am drawing a blank.
The azimuth is tough to see I have to really sight it by eye on this cartridge but it appears correct. When checking everything in the end the overhang is correct with the cartridge overhang gauge I have for this headshell. What is confusing me here guys? :stupid:
Where do I place the protractor on the platter once it is centered at the spindle? When I try to think the calibration through I seem to think that no matter where I adjust the overhang I can move the protractor to line up with the stylus. I have forgotten something totally here and I am not sure what it is. I am aligning the 97xE with the Shure protractor. First I move the cartridge in over the outer target and adjust the overhang. Then I move the protractor and check it at the center and it is correct. Now, whats to stop me from having the protractor in the wrong spot in the first place therefore making the overhang adjustment seem correct? What have I forgotten? I am drawing a blank.
The azimuth is tough to see I have to really sight it by eye on this cartridge but it appears correct. When checking everything in the end the overhang is correct with the cartridge overhang gauge I have for this headshell. What is confusing me here guys? :stupid:
hakaplan
Needs professional help
The first lining up is random--it doesn't matter where you position the cartridge. Thereafter each time you move from one null point to the other you will refine the position more and more until you reach the position where it lines up on both points.
Old_Tech
Yer-isn't!
I thought the overhang was adjusted to an initial value then tweaked at the inner point? My ELAC has that alignment post on it at the tonearm rest. The headshell screw is turned in or out until the stylus is directly over its point. I found that when I placed the protactor on the table the stylus null points lined up perfectly. So how can the initial position be random?
I believe you but I thought the cartridge had to be at a defined position in the headshell then tweaked for the inner null point and azimuth. I am misunderstanding this I know it.
hakaplan
Needs professional help
No, it doesn't matter where the cartridge starts. There will be only one position where the cartridge (or really cantilever) is parallel to the grid lines on both points. If you find that starting at the overhang gets you there quicker it only means that the mfr's null points were close to it. The published overhang is a reflection of the mfrs geometry. If you use a protractor, you are ignoring that and using the null points of the protractor. Once you "tweak" the existing overhang, you have changed the geometry to that of the protractor and are not adhering to the mfr's geometry. Some say Baerwald is better, and it might be, but using what the mfr had in mind certainly isn't wrong. But it's one of the other, not both.
rexrider
Active Member
If I may, let me take a crack at this for you.
The null points are used to set the position of the cart in the head shell. They will determine how far back or front the cart resides in the adjustment slots
As a starting point. place the cart in the middle of the adj slots with the cart squared up in relation to the headshell. It is important to make sure the cart and headshell are square with each other.
Don't set the needle on the null point. Just get the cantilever over the center line that goes through the null point.
Now, looking from different angles, make sure the headshell and cart are squared up on the graph while keeping the cantilever over that center line. You are not aiming for the null point. You need to find where the needle lands to know how to adjust.
You will have move the platter with the protractor and the arm to get every thing squared. If you can, using the cue control, lower the arm to as close to the protractor as you can. You may need to make small adjustments until you see everything line. if you move one, you need to move the other to get it squared up.
With the cart and headdhell square on the graph and the cantilever lined up with the center line....
...Where is the needle located? is it front of the null point? behind it? right on top of it.
If the needle in front, then simply move the cart back a little bit. Start the process over again adjusting until the needle lands on the null point.
If it was behind the null point, move forward a little. Wash, rinse, repeat until the needle lands on the null point.
If it landed right on the null point. Don't move anything. Just recheck your alignment on the graph. Still on the null point? You got lucky. Go buy a lottery ticket when done.
Give that a shot. Hope that helps.
The null points are used to set the position of the cart in the head shell. They will determine how far back or front the cart resides in the adjustment slots
As a starting point. place the cart in the middle of the adj slots with the cart squared up in relation to the headshell. It is important to make sure the cart and headshell are square with each other.
Don't set the needle on the null point. Just get the cantilever over the center line that goes through the null point.
Now, looking from different angles, make sure the headshell and cart are squared up on the graph while keeping the cantilever over that center line. You are not aiming for the null point. You need to find where the needle lands to know how to adjust.
You will have move the platter with the protractor and the arm to get every thing squared. If you can, using the cue control, lower the arm to as close to the protractor as you can. You may need to make small adjustments until you see everything line. if you move one, you need to move the other to get it squared up.
With the cart and headdhell square on the graph and the cantilever lined up with the center line....
...Where is the needle located? is it front of the null point? behind it? right on top of it.
If the needle in front, then simply move the cart back a little bit. Start the process over again adjusting until the needle lands on the null point.
If it was behind the null point, move forward a little. Wash, rinse, repeat until the needle lands on the null point.
If it landed right on the null point. Don't move anything. Just recheck your alignment on the graph. Still on the null point? You got lucky. Go buy a lottery ticket when done.
Give that a shot. Hope that helps.
hakaplan
Needs professional help
I think you're right--you are misunderstanding the terms.
Alignment is the orientation of the cartridge in the horizontal plane that is parallel to the record surface. Azimuth is the orientation in one of the vertical planes that is perpendicular to the record surface. When you view the cartridge mounted on the arm from the front, it is the degree that it tilts upward either to the left or the right. This positioning is adjusted either by eye or listening to make sure that both channels are equal in signal strength.
Now, back to cartridge alignment. For pivoting tonearms (as opposed to linear trackers) the best scenario is that there will be two points during record play where the distortion is the lowest. These are called the null points. The idea is to find the two points that produce the best compromise of overall least distortion and best sound over the entire play of the record. Baerwald, Loefgren, Stevenson and some others experimented to find the two points they felt produced the best overall result.
These points are arrived at by plugging in different variables into essentially a triangle equation. Those variables are (1)the distance from the arm pivot to the spindle (arm mounting distance), (2)the distance from the arm pivot to the stylus tip (effective arm length), and (3)the angle of the cartridge with respect to the long axis of the arm (offset angle). Overhang is a direct function of the arm length--it is the mounting distance minus the arm length, which is the same as the distance from the center of the spindle to the stylus when the long axis of the arm is over the spindle. The mounting distance is fixed, but the other two are changeable. Overhang will change depending on the null points used. The published overhang for a tt is based on the null points the mfr used, which might be the same as one of the major protractors, or not. So once you use different null points, the effective arm length and hence the overhang will change, because the stylus will move to a different position.
For turntables that supply a jig or a cartridge mounting measurement, the mfr is providing you the variables up front which will ultimately result in the null points the mfr used. By keeping the cartridge square in the headshell you are setting the offset angle. By using the measurement provided, e.g. 52mm for Technics, you are setting the effective arm length (and overhang) where the mfr intended. You my not even know the null points, but you have achieved them by effectively plugging the variables into the equation.
When you use a protractor, you are working from the other direction. You are starting out with known null points, and through using the protractor will wind up with a certain offset angle and effective arm length/overhang.
iLUVanalog
Addicted Member
Of course it doesn't....the gauge that comes with the cartridge is totally different. The gauge is specifically suited to a straight headshell that would be mounted on an s-shape tonearm rather than a straight arm such as the one on your 300F.