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Should I buy a hybrid?

Have you considered an all electric car? They are purported to be quite powerful and depending on electricity rates could be cheap to drive. Just remember to plug it in at night!
https://www.nissanusa.com/leaf-electric-car/savings-calculator
Of course there is the rate of payback on any fuel saving car. If you are paying an exorbitant sum for the express purpose of saving gas it will take a very long time to reach the break even point, if the car will even last that long..
 
The Leaf shows a range of 107 miles (when brand new!). I drive at least 80 per day not counting any side trips and I don't have any charge capability at work. So it has to be more than 107. I wonder what the Bolt does?

Also, the electrics require a 240V outlet - I can install one myself or have someone do it, but it's a project.

Edit: The Bolt is 238 mi according to their page:

http://www.chevrolet.com/bolt-ev-electric-vehicle

$38,000 though - yikes. Well, that's MSRP, seems you might find one for more like $28,000.
 
toxcrusadr said:
The Leaf shows a range of 107 miles (when brand new!). I drive at least 80 per day not counting any side trips and I don't have any charge capability at work. So it has to be more than 107. I wonder what the Bolt does?

Also, the electrics require a 240V outlet - I can install one myself or have someone do it, but it's a project.

Edit: The Bolt is 238 mi according to their page:

http://www.chevrolet.com/bolt-ev-electric-vehicle

$38,000 though - yikes. Well, that's MSRP, seems you might find one for more like $28,000.
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Yeah, @ 28K it generally competes with a new gas powered car, and would be something to keep an eye on. Still, being a northerner here with a high KWH rate I will pass for now. Plus I often need to make long road trips into and through the wilderness. Can't plug into a spruce tree.. However living in a big city an electric might make more sense, provided the sudden switch in mass to electric power doesn't overwhelm the grid and cause big swings in the power rate.

Of course that is way beyond the question in your OP.. I'd find a nice low miles used car of known reliability and fuel economy and wait on the new tech stuff to become established and the price come down..
 
You can actually go over 300 miles in a Bolt on the HWY driven at the speed limit according to a number of people on Green Car Reports etc.

You can actually get it for $30K US if you can get a Federal Tax credit in your State.

The Volt qualifies for the same rebate also so from $34K down to $26.6K. & the latest version (2016+ but check on that) will go 54 miles before the backup generator (1.5L Engine) cuts in and will run to give you winter heat and charging in the cold.
 
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toxcrusadr said:
The Leaf shows a range of 107 miles (when brand new!). I drive at least 80 per day not counting any side trips and I don't have any charge capability at work. So it has to be more than 107. I wonder what the Bolt does?

Also, the electrics require a 240V outlet - I can install one myself or have someone do it, but it's a project.

Edit: The Bolt is 238 mi according to their page:

http://www.chevrolet.com/bolt-ev-electric-vehicle

$38,000 though - yikes. Well, that's MSRP, seems you might find one for more like $28,000.
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Is there not even a 110 outlet at work? We have a Chevy Volt which gives 40+ miles on pure electric and then a gas generator kicks in to power the electric motors for another 250 miles of range. Seems like with your commute the electic range would be spot on if you could recharge from a 110 outlet during the day.

We're averaging over 150 miles to the gallon. I got a used one for about $ 16k with 25,000 miles on the odometer. The whole power and drive system is under a federally mandated extended warranty which takes a lot of the early adopter fear away. It's a blast to drive in pure electric sport mode!
 
I'm a highway driver, 32k miles last year.

My current "car" has 40k on it since new, 16 months ago. It's 5,000lbs, tows 7,200lbs, is 4WD, and my average since new is 32.6mpg. It's a turbodiesel so according to the EPA it also emits 30% less greenhouse gasses than an equivalent gasoline SUV.

I did a lot of math when buying again, my last car crossed 300k miles before I sold it so I am committed. I looked at hybrids, really liked the idea of the Chevy Volt (plug-in hybrid), electrics, gas and diesel. If not for the VW scandal I'd probably be driving VW or Audi diesel (not available when I bought).

Electric doesn't have the range. Even a good friend's Model S can't make my daily drive without stopping to charge, and I don't have that kind of time. Make it a couple of years old with an aging battery pack, then turn on the heater/defroster, lights, wipers, and bun-warmers and plan on a long extension cord.

In the end diesel made sense. Pick a good one and resale will be good also, high-mile diesels typically sell for more and easier than high-mile gassers. They start perfectly fine in -20F, run quiet, only emit a faint chlorine smell, and have ample power.

Straight gasoline would be my second choice. I've rented lots of hybrids (rented 184 days in 2016) to see how they would work for me, ... and had trouble getting significantly better mileage than the gasoline version (with base engine, not the performance versions, most cars have several choices).

The only advantage I can see to owning a hypbrid is being able to park in the Hypbrid spaces at O'Hare.
 
Or the South-Park version: pee-you-is and Honda Hindsight.

Nothing against hybrids, but I've seen better ones at the SAE conference for 30years, ... a good SERIES hybrid makes sense to me with a small turbodiesel or even small turbine (both of which would be extremely efficient running a set RPM to just run a generator), ... it only takes around 20hp to run a small car down the highway at 75mph so you only need a small (maybe 30hp) engine for a range-extending charging source.

I like electric, but the range doesn't make sense to many of us. If I lived in sunny California and commuted through city traffic, ... yeah. For me not so much. I have almost 900miles of useable range, gets me from my house to Cleveland, back home, to Chicago, back home with reserves in any weather. In a Tesla plan on several 20minute (minimum) SuperCharger station stops plus plugging in all night (and hopefully you bought the dual-charger version).

But if my company wants to buy a hybrid or electric for me, ... I'm parking by the door at the airport WOO-HOO!
 
SaturationPt said:
a good SERIES hybrid makes sense to me with a small turbodiesel or even small turbine (both of which would be extremely efficient running a set RPM to just run a generator),
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A lot of people don't realize that "diesel locomotives" are exactly that--diesel engines that power electric generators for the actual drivetrain--and that tech has been around for nearly a century...
 
No outlet at work, which you'd think there would be since I work for, uh, a gov't environmental agency. :rflmao: But in a state with the lowest per-capita total spending on the environment of all 50, usually. Have to buy our own coffee, people donate old used microwave ovens for the lunch room, etc. We're lucky they don't make us bring our own air to work. So no electric vehicle charging outlets. Heck I'd put quarters in and pay for it, but it would take thousands to install one, and it's not happening. At least until there is enough demand. They do give state grants to gas stations for E85 pumps, and there is one right up the street to fuel up flex fuel motor pool vehicles. Maybe some day we'll have an outlet.

Plug in hybrid, I forgot about those, that's another possible solution.

Diesel, yeah, doesn't Volkswagen make those? :rflmao:
 
toxcrusadr said:
<<snip>>Diesel, yeah, doesn't Volkswagen make those? :rflmao:
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They do! And in other countries, they sell them. For some reason however, we were able to chase off some of the lowest-emission best fuel mileage mid-size through SUVs in the world so that we can continue to drive V-8 Escapades with hypbrid badges on the sides that can't deliver 20mpg on the highway.

Brilliant.

Oh, and the escapades get special parking, ... a 40mpg Hounda or Toyota with a gas engine doesn't. Further evidence of the environmental IQ in this country.
 
I am actually surprised they have been banned from selling them (according to a May Car and Driver article) - one would think they could fix the problem, pay their fines and move on. I am not sure I agree with that situation. But at the same time, I don't think punishing VW for their colossal and long-standing lies equates to a preference for gasoline engines and hybrids. That's a false equivalency.
 
at one time diesel was cleaner .now petrol is cleaner . i cant keep up with it . i am waiting for batter technology to improve a little . serviceable would be a good start like lead acids were in the early days when the came in a wooden case and could be taken apart for winter storage . diesel electric will take some beating . those will burn crude oil . like with ships ..unclean i know . bring on renewables creating more renewables .
 
savatage1973 said:
A lot of people don't realize that "diesel locomotives" are exactly that--diesel engines that power electric generators for the actual drivetrain--and that tech has been around for nearly a century...
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Yes it has been the same with ships but there is a reason for it that some don't realize. The inertia it takes to overcome the heavy flywheels in order to bring up rpm's on these sized diesel engines is very slow, and under load even slower. With a diesel turning a generator, the diesel runs at a fixed constant RPM and a governor of some sorts dials in the extra fuel instantly to maintain RPMs under fluctuating loads.
 
petehall347 said:
at one time diesel was cleaner .now petrol is cleaner . i cant keep up with it .<<snip>>
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Not in the USA according to their findings published Aug 2016 for trucks, the EPA stated that diesels are currently emitting 30% less greenhouse gas than the equivalent gasoline engine. They even found that there is no reason for them to continue pushing Natural Gas for fuel as the savings aren't there (I spent a lot of time in this debate with the EPA, and won).

Alobar said:
Yes it has been the same with ships but there is a reason for it that some don't realize. The inertia it takes to overcome the heavy flywheels in order to bring up rpm's on these sized diesel engines is very slow, and under load even slower. With a diesel turning a generator, the diesel runs at a fixed constant RPM and a governor of some sorts dials in the extra fuel instantly to maintain RPMs under fluctuating loads.
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Thus a series-hybrid (what ships, locomotives, and electric utilities use) is best, utilizing a fixed-rpm engine driving a generator/alternator. This is what all of the universities and research institutions have been showing for 3 decades at the SAE conferences, ... but the automakers seem to prefer parallel hybrids (where the engine drives the wheels and/or electric, with varying RPMs through a transmission, and with waaay more HP than would be needed with pure electric drive (with series generator).

We won't even get into how much more pollution and distillation is necessary to produce gasoline, how it is more dangerous, evaporates harmfully into the atmosphere, or how much carbon footprint the life-cycle of any car (especially if it includes large amounts of lithium) creates before it's even sold.

Our reasons for buying the current crop of hypbrids is based largely on hype, as are those for buying electric. If we need to have 8-passenger Cadillac Escapades running around for a cart full of groceries or single commuter all over our country, we're wasting resources in many ways. Just having a hybrid badge on the side makes people feel better, ... and more responsible. If you want to line a Prius and a Jetta Tdi up for my type of driving, I'll take the larger more comfortable Jetta and have money left over at the end of my nearly 60mpg trip for a latte where I can sit with the Prius drivers bragging about how they're saving the world. I'll also drive it for 300k miles without having to go back to the earth to have it puke up another Li-Ion and plastic battery pack (or two).
 
SoCal Sam said:
Taxi fleets are now mostly Hybrid. I think that is recommendation enough regarding the economics of ownership.
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They might be in some parts of the country, but not here. We still have the ancient former cop cars painted every which color you can imagine as part of the cab fleets. There are a couple of startup companies that offer the hybrid rides, but they are few and far between. The limo services are just upscale cabs, and they usually use the Lincolns or Cadillacs for those. Plus the Uber/Lyft "bring your own vehicle" idea is kind of kicking conventional cab services where it hurts, and those for the most part are not hybrids either.
SaturationPt said:
I like electric, but the range doesn't make sense to many of us.
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True. It makes zero sense for me. My recent road trips demonstrate the shortcoming of electrics. I want to drive. I want to go places, and make good time while I'm on the road. I don't want to dink around with plugging my toy car into the nearest outlet and spend hours w-a-i-t-i-n-g for something to recharge, or getting a half-assed "super charge" somewhere, or swapping batteries. There are places out west where there is no gasoline to be found for 100+ miles on a stretch of road. (I-70 through Utah is one such area.) That is why I am a fan of the fuel cells. They can currently refuel nearly as fast as gasoline. The big argument is that there is no infrastructure, but go back 110+ years and there was no infrastructure for gasoline stations either. Baby steps. Gotta start somewhere. Honda is on their third generation fuel cell vehicle, and they improve greatly with each new generation. Toyota has one out now as well. Might take a decade or two more, but hopefully something like fuel cells will be commonplace before I'm pushin' up daisies.

If I lived in a small town and had to putz around with errands, a little electric ride would actually be handy. But for that matter, I could easily get a moped or scooter and do the same thing. Or a golf cart.
 
Wildcat said:
<<snip>>If I lived in a small town and had to putz around with errands, a little electric ride would actually be handy. But for that matter, I could easily get a moped or scooter and do the same thing. Or a golf cart.
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I live in a small town but like many of us in small towns, we don't work and/or don't shop in our small town, ... so only an extended-range plug-in will work (ex: Volt). Love to have one, just can't justify it as my primary vehicle yet. If I were buying a small/new car for my 16y/o however, a Volt would be PERFECT.
 
The odd hybrid here as taxi & I see one for regular use (could be more) . Too cold in the winter and probably too pricy.

What's wrong with the Cruze and Equinox Diesel.

There is a 2014 Tesla here though, and only used in the winter when their is mild conditions. Owner has problems with all the electronic gadgets though and has to be transported or driven to the nearest big city 300 miles or 500 km away.

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2018-chevrolet-equinox-diesel-first-drive-reviewhttps://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2018-chevrolet-equinox-diesel-first-drive-review
 
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