I currently have the Grado Black III cartridge for my Empire 598 and to me it sounds really nice. I read online it's not that great of a cartridge and would like to know if it would be better if I get an Empire brand cartridge suck as the Empire 1000 SE/x , Empire 2000 E III or Empire 4000D? The other concern would be that I would have to adjust the stylus and I really don't want to play with it.
Should I get a better cartridge for my Empire 598
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knotscott
Super Member
The only opinion that matters is yours. If you like the sound of your cart, enjoy it and don't worry about what anyone else thinks about it.
It's entirely possible that you could get audible improvement from a more advanced needle, but the more sophisticated profiles tend to be more sensitive to setup, so may need some fine tuning to be optimal. How something sounds is subjective and personal. If you want to improve the sound, just know that upgrades may need to some fiddling, and there's no guarantee you'll actually like it better.
It's entirely possible that you could get audible improvement from a more advanced needle, but the more sophisticated profiles tend to be more sensitive to setup, so may need some fine tuning to be optimal. How something sounds is subjective and personal. If you want to improve the sound, just know that upgrades may need to some fiddling, and there's no guarantee you'll actually like it better.
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Crab33
Super Member
I agree with the above - what is "better" depends on you. Actually, you may not need to move from an elliptical to a more exotic stylus to change the sound for the 'better'. Cartridges have different characters, so you may only need to move to another cartridge with elliptical stylus to get what you want. You would have to align the cartridge, but this is a normal part of installation. You should ask yourself what you like about your current sound and what you would like to improve. The Grado Prestige cartridges tend to be warm and there will certainly be plenty of options for going brighter. If you like the Grado sound, you could consider moving up the Grado tree with a simple stylus replacement. I have no experience of Empire cartridges but know that they are no longer made - I would look into the availability of styli for future replacements.
One thing to note is the effective mass of the arm. I can't find a figure for this but it looks chunky and possibly high-mass - someone else might have a clue on this. If it is, this would restrict you to cartridges with low-compliance or possibly medium-compliance styli. In fact, the Grados tend to work better on lighter arms, so it may not be as massive as it looks.
One thing to note is the effective mass of the arm. I can't find a figure for this but it looks chunky and possibly high-mass - someone else might have a clue on this. If it is, this would restrict you to cartridges with low-compliance or possibly medium-compliance styli. In fact, the Grados tend to work better on lighter arms, so it may not be as massive as it looks.
timmy.timmy
Well-Known Member
Yeah well although I do consider myself more as a 'Ri-Fi' (as for Ri-ght Fi-elity) rather than 'Hi-Fi' guy in 'orthodoxy', I often take my gear to the limit as a tweaker. This to get the best out of my old 45 rpm 7" groove. That I do by ear rather than from specifications or measurements only. And these Empire tonearms are of high effective mass. Begging to match best low-er compliant cartridges I'd have believe... Could be wrong though. The Grado 'Black' cartridge is of medium compliance from what I got.
Hence why I am surprise with that match of yours. Here I've been tweaking my tonearm to seriously enhance gradually it's effective mass to meet the low of low but unknown given compliance of my cartridge. Hearing it gradually opening up from good to fantastic all along. That only with my ears. This to tell that the match (precise as approximative in the extremes) between these two interlinked components is rather crucial for both to be truly complementary and so performing to their optimum from good to great...
More ; I've even heard "cheap" phono gear for whom I have no attraction to but when well combined with well calibrated gear really sounded surprisingly good. That I had to revise my pre-conceptions on those... Right damn ! Having witnessed once again that all the calibrations between the phono components in the chain is always crucial. Either to accommodate a matching pair and bring the best of both or to compensate a weaker feature in a pair. This second compensation "calibration" thing is only true in the amplification chain though.
If a cartridge nominal compliance figure is only given after laboratory measurements, in real situations these specifications would be evidently else. People at Grado are rather "shy" in regard of their cartridges and styluses specifications FWIW. That for such non reliable reasons which we can understand as it's not relative to a real situation. But only to lab specs. Yet for the rest they still do not disclose much specifications, explanations or the work-out of their mysterious 'Prestige' carts IME. Anyway I've heard a Grado Prestige cart sounding great on one phono with some LP records.
But not yet on all systems nor with any records. I am still trying to get me head around what exactly in the amplification chain should suit them best. Although I am lead to believe that more crucially the HF section of the speakers should really be of very well controlled rendition in playback. The Grado Prestige 'clarity' is what seduced me when I first heard it at a friend's place. But on two other phono system trials they proved really fussy in the HF with a lot of "hairs" on the outlining of the highs out of the tweeters. Giving a really "bright" image of the music. That was truly nothing pleasant.
Not willing to give up two failures with the Grado Prestige carts I still intend to pursue in finding how to grace them 'exotic' cartridges best. Anyway what is that you find with your Grado 'Black' that could be improved through another cartridge ? Are you seeking a MI, MM or even MC cartridge specifically or not ? In what budget ? What is your preamp or phono section from your amp capable to take/handle for cart ? Now finally what sort of records and music you to listen to ? All that was a lot to take at one time on a simple cartridge recommendation but I hope it could maybe prove useful to some...
Post scriptum ; I've manage to dig some further on the Empire 598 turntable and the 990 tonearm and although it's a heavy effective mass tonearm, it boasted back then in 1969/70 to be able to handle such ultra light compliant and tracking cart (@1/4 Gram) like the Empire 1000ZEX cartridge... If so then other light compliant cartridge should be no problem as well. Could this be due to it's 'dynamic balance' design ? Although in physics I don't see where that would change the forces at work but hey... And indeed I read that there was no undesired tonearm to cartridge resonance there and then with light compliant cartridges so...
Hence why I am surprise with that match of yours. Here I've been tweaking my tonearm to seriously enhance gradually it's effective mass to meet the low of low but unknown given compliance of my cartridge. Hearing it gradually opening up from good to fantastic all along. That only with my ears. This to tell that the match (precise as approximative in the extremes) between these two interlinked components is rather crucial for both to be truly complementary and so performing to their optimum from good to great...
More ; I've even heard "cheap" phono gear for whom I have no attraction to but when well combined with well calibrated gear really sounded surprisingly good. That I had to revise my pre-conceptions on those... Right damn ! Having witnessed once again that all the calibrations between the phono components in the chain is always crucial. Either to accommodate a matching pair and bring the best of both or to compensate a weaker feature in a pair. This second compensation "calibration" thing is only true in the amplification chain though.
If a cartridge nominal compliance figure is only given after laboratory measurements, in real situations these specifications would be evidently else. People at Grado are rather "shy" in regard of their cartridges and styluses specifications FWIW. That for such non reliable reasons which we can understand as it's not relative to a real situation. But only to lab specs. Yet for the rest they still do not disclose much specifications, explanations or the work-out of their mysterious 'Prestige' carts IME. Anyway I've heard a Grado Prestige cart sounding great on one phono with some LP records.
But not yet on all systems nor with any records. I am still trying to get me head around what exactly in the amplification chain should suit them best. Although I am lead to believe that more crucially the HF section of the speakers should really be of very well controlled rendition in playback. The Grado Prestige 'clarity' is what seduced me when I first heard it at a friend's place. But on two other phono system trials they proved really fussy in the HF with a lot of "hairs" on the outlining of the highs out of the tweeters. Giving a really "bright" image of the music. That was truly nothing pleasant.
Not willing to give up two failures with the Grado Prestige carts I still intend to pursue in finding how to grace them 'exotic' cartridges best. Anyway what is that you find with your Grado 'Black' that could be improved through another cartridge ? Are you seeking a MI, MM or even MC cartridge specifically or not ? In what budget ? What is your preamp or phono section from your amp capable to take/handle for cart ? Now finally what sort of records and music you to listen to ? All that was a lot to take at one time on a simple cartridge recommendation but I hope it could maybe prove useful to some...
Post scriptum ; I've manage to dig some further on the Empire 598 turntable and the 990 tonearm and although it's a heavy effective mass tonearm, it boasted back then in 1969/70 to be able to handle such ultra light compliant and tracking cart (@1/4 Gram) like the Empire 1000ZEX cartridge... If so then other light compliant cartridge should be no problem as well. Could this be due to it's 'dynamic balance' design ? Although in physics I don't see where that would change the forces at work but hey... And indeed I read that there was no undesired tonearm to cartridge resonance there and then with light compliant cartridges so...
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MisterDK
Addicted Member
I ordered the Empire 1000 Z/ex cartridge, so let's see what happens. I want my turntable to be original to factory as possible. My Dad had a Shure M92? It is a red color. I think the Empire 1000 is the ticket. The turntable was restored by an individual that supposedly knows alot about these turntables, so I figured per his recommendation the Grado would be suitable for this turntable. The sound is very nice, but I want to see how this works with the Empire cartridge. I am only concerned about messing up the adjustments when I install the new cartridge. The turntable is running perfectly, but I just gotta to hear an original Empire Cartridge on an original Empire turntable.
ghamilton
Super Member
timmy.timmy
Well-Known Member
Ha ! True some like to have an keep their gear as the day it came out of the factory. Others like I seek to take them to a higher level as in improving them or to another expression like for a conversion. From the second sort I am. But evidently both are legit.
Although commonly claimed yet in real a bit strange to consider upfront a match between a tonearm and cartridge before the cartridge to a preamp... Even though logically the tonearm effective mass is to be matched with a cartridge compliance, but beyond that all is possible.
More crucial it is to match a tonearm to a turntable. Just like matching an amp to speakers. Even though the cartridge on a turntable 'pro-format' perfect match is often presented by the brands as a 'classic' match, only such statements are really more a commercial co-promotion agreement.
Although I get your 'classic' thing from the 'conservative' point of view to have it all 'Empire' there, as it makes sense, but for your repair guy choice in regard of a Grado Prestige cart for your turntable,no matter how I totally like his "daring" approach, I'd have opt first for a more 'conventional' cart first.
More so since I explained above that IME to get the best out of those Grado Prestige carts one needs to have the right amplification chain for it. Which I can't point out yet. And most likely on the tweeter's side I believe. More trials for my Grado's to come. Likely your Empire cart will prove a very different listening experience.
Let us know how it turns out for you please. As for the new Empire cart installation not much settings I should believe will beg for major readjustments. They both share many similar specs. More crucial is to put the needle guard of the Grado on before beginning to unscrew it from the headshell. Them Grado's cantilever are most fragile. Good luck
