Should I spend more money on a better turntable?

[jeffpaletz]

You have an excellent turntable. Direct drive is the quietest type of drive system. Worst is idler drive/rim drive. Speakers play the biggest role in reproducing the sound. Second and much further down the priority list is the cartridge. Make sure you have the best speakers you can afford before making other changes. The bigger the better as far as reproducing good, deep bass. As a minimum your speaker should have 12" woofers. If you want excellent vintage speakers look for JBL L100 or Pioneer HPM100.

 

[matteos]

There's only one thing... Not wrong.. but.. you know with your turntable. The P mount gives you a limited rage of cartridges to pick from. Not that there aren't some excellent Pmount cartridges. In fact I think some of the really good linear Technics decks only used p mount cartridges.

If you were to upgrade get better speakers. Your deck has quite a few good things going for it. It's quartz locked for one thing... If you want to jump down the rabbit hole then welcome but no need to upgrade your turntable unless you want to start dropping money - at least $2-300 on a cartridge.. and once your ready for that it's MC time and then you'll need a different phono stage etc.

Do the speakers first.

But also if you're happy with the set up.. just enjoy it. This hobby is expensive.

 

[shelly_d]

...
So here is the basic question: Will I be blown away spending money on a better turntable? I like the idea of looking at a beautiful finished-wood plinth on a classic system such as a Dual 1219 or Thorens TD-160. And if I wanted to, I could spend a lot on an expensive Rega or Pro-ject or whatever...But would it actually sound SUBSTANTIALLY better so much so that I won't ever look back? Or would the difference be limited to minor differences on specific passages of music (and when the moon is full, the humidity is >52.05%, and Jupiter is ascending in the first house of Uranus, and well, whatever...)
...
I'm happy to be talked into buying more stereo equipment... but do I really need to and will I actually notice a difference?

Noticeable difference - probably yes, substantial - probably not. Your current turntable is already into the level of diminishing returns. Each improvement you make will produce smaller and smaller improvements for more and more money.

I'm not advising you don't do is, just trying to set expectations.

Good luck.

 

[sqlsavior]

I lived with the non-quartz version of your table, I believe, for about 25 years. I even damped the platter with spray rubber, and got an Ortofon p-mount moving coil cartridge for it, which really helped, but it is what it is. Since then I've had a Music Hall MMF-5, Denon DP1200 (still have), Teac TN-400 (still have), Rega P5 (returned), Pioneer PLX-1000 (returned), Marantz TT-15 (still have, but broken), and a Technics SP-25 (still have). All were significantly better tables, (assuming PLX-1000s exist with properly adjusted tonearm bearings).

Record playback is one area of the hi-fi domain where spending more money seems to keep being rewarded, in my experience. Regardless, I'd keep what you have now, it being a gift with family history and all.

 

[Flasher1170]

Thanks everyone for the advice. Your advice is greatly appreciated and sort of what I figured.

The in-wall speakers were not by choice. They came with the house I bought and I did not have high expectations. However, they have been framed in and sealed and back filled with fiber insulation, so they sound much better than I had anticipated. They are placed 12 feet apart about in a room that is 18 feet wide and 35 feet deep that is our living/dining room in an open floor plan. Not much furniture and hard wood floors with 10 foot ceilings. I'm usually listening about 15 feet back from the wall. Very nice low end for 8" drivers, though the highs could probably be a bit more clear for my liking. Only drawback is it sounds optimal at slightly higher volumes than my wife would like. Great for most of what I want to listen to, but maybe not best for quiet passages in classical.

I have heard bad things about NAD quality control. I can't complain so far as it has been functioning without any problems. I have compared the amp with this setup to a standard Sony surround sound amp. No comparison - the NAD sounds dramatically better. I was surprised how noticeable the difference was actually. It made me wonder if I would have a similar experience with a higher end turntable - thus the genesis of this question.

I have a pair of Totem Acoustic Dreamcatcher monitors that sound amazing in a smaller room, though I haven't tried them with the Technics TT as a source, only digital/streaming. In the large space that I am currently listening and entertaining in, the larger Klipschs work well aesthetically since they're not taking up space and have a nice punch on the low end that I don't think the Totems can provide in such a big room. Until I get a dedicated listening room, I may be stuck with the in-wall speakers since it works with the room layout.

Someone mentioned somewhere placing modeling clay in the hollows of the Technics base or platter. Anyone have any experience with this? I once placed a neoprene-like cover over the heavy rubber mat on the platter to see if it made a difference. It deadened the sound dramatically, and not in a good way. Made me realize how much of a difference the resonance of the platter can make.

It has been a lot of fun dabbling in vinyl so far. There is something very unique about knowing that the vinyl and stylus are creating something of a second performance after the recording. I'll probably upgrade to a more classic vintage TT when I see something intriguing come my way. I appreciate all of your support that a "cheap" turntable can still be a great intro to the hobby. I'm certainly still enjoying it.

 

[shelly_d]

... I once placed a neoprene-like cover over the heavy rubber mat on the platter to see if it made a difference. It deadened the sound dramatically, and not in a good way. Made me realize how much of a difference the resonance of the platter can make....

This could also be from raising the overall height of the record. Since turntables using "P-Mount" cartridges are all designed around the same physical package for the cartridge, they can leave out many of the settings adjustments that tonearms made for the more common 1/3 inch mount have, including the vertical tracking angle adjustment. The neoprene-like cover would have raised the record up and thrown the angle off, effecting how the stylus responded to the undulations in the groove.

There is a lot to this hobby. Stay with it and be open to learning new stuff. It is a lot of fun and some of it can be a real surprise, in both good and bad ways. But it is fun.


Shelly_D

 

[the_nines]

Stay with what you have, buy some records instead.

 

[dave b]

Cool thread!! I remember 1 set up....,15 years later BITTEN BY THE BUG....!!14 turntables, 10
kenwood integrated amps receivers, 12 pair of speakers,,, the latest JBL L100's speakers. Interestingly they all havetheir own unique sound. It is fun to adjust and swap out cartridges etc... my poor wallet.....

 

[JFRACE]

Try taking the in wall speakers and putting something on either external side facing the wall until they are pointing at your ears when in the middle of the room, also see if the tweeters are at about ear level. Imagine will change with music then try a new upgraded stylus or cartridge. If that doesn't work, move on to new speakers. If you're missing detail, get a better stylus with a better diamond on it.

 

[Recognizer]

I suggest you get some sort of record cleaning system. It will completely change how some of those dirty records sound. Also, maybe upgrade the inner sleeves on some of your favorite records (or do them all like I have). The paper sleeves have fibers which come off and get stuck in the grooves of the record. I'm currently using this record cleaner (which isn't amazing, but isn't bad either):
https://www.amazon.com/Vinyl-Styl-G...id=1517102228&sr=8-12&keywords=record+cleaner
and these inner sleeves:
https://www.amazon.com/Diskeeper-Ul...75&sr=1-1&keywords=sleeve+city+ultimate+inner

 

[majick47]

I'd tread lightly when thinking about messing with the platter, easy to throw off the balance, I say leave it original undisturbed, keep an eye on your local Craigslist for a better performing Technics and if this one is in nice unmolested shape it will make a good down payment on the next table.

 

[Sprungtol]

There's one thing will bother most of vinyl fans is the fluctuation of rpm speed can't stand still, it wobbles 3-4 mm.
You will try to fix it but you'll end up with losing battle.
The downside of Technics tables is the pots need cleaning periodically 1 - 1.5 year.
They lack of phosphor and bronze.

 

[savatage1973]

Turntables are to be seen, NOT heard.

Agreed--that's why I own TTs with (what I consider) a certain "aesthetic" to them.

I have never heard a system that the turntable disappeared on. The minute the needle hit the vinyl I can hear it, unless the volume was set very low. The simple fact is at very hi volume levels, between tracks your going to hear the friction of the stylus in the vinyl. I wish I could say otherwise.

I have to respectfully disagree with this--a good solid deck with a properly aligned, good condition, cleaned cart/stylus with very clean vinyl should not "rumble" or "grind" or suffer from serious IGD. If you are playing nothing but uncleaned thrift store/yard sale records, expect noise. A dollar bin record is going to sound like a dollar bin record without a deep cleaning, even with a $2K stylus (unless you get really lucky).

If you want excellent vintage speakers look for JBL L100 or Pioneer HPM100.

Not disparaging either of those speakers (I own JBL L00's and two pair of 4312C's) but they are not the "best" of the best of that era. For classic rock (which most of which was marginally engineered, they can be awesome, but not necessarily accurate. But they are a lot of fun, and great "icons" of the era.

 

[KLH9]

I have never heard a system that the turntable disappeared on. The minute the needle hit the vinyl I can hear it, unless the volume was set very low. The simple fact is at very hi volume levels, between tracks your going to hear the friction of the stylus in the vinyl. I wish I could say otherwise. Once the stylus hits modulations than the music can be very effective at masking that friction, even some small artifacts as well, but it depends on the dynamics of the music. Now their might be systems that are good enough that I wouldn't hear anything but I have yet to hear one. But it isn't going to be some mid fi system, that is for sure.
.

Most people consider/call that and tape hiss part of the source not a function of the turntable or tape deck.

 

[stratokaster]

My advice would be to be happy with what you have.

This hobby really is an enormous money pit.

While I have been playing records since I was 3, I’ve “rediscovered” vinyl 5 years ago when I bought a cheap belt-driven turntable to play my (and my father’s) record collection which has been sitting unplayed for about 3 years, since his old record player died. Fast forward to 2018, and I just finished refurbishing a Technics SL-110 with an Audio-Technica professional broadcast tonearm and I already paid a deposit towards a fully adjusted and recapped SP-10 mk2. I hope the SP-10 will be my last turntable for a while (it’s not easy to better it), but there are so many cool turntables out there and many of them look extremely attractive. Maybe I need to give my wife the PIN code to my online banking to prevent “accidental” purchases from happening in the future...

 

[heavyrock]

Approx how many records do you have now, and is your intent to continue to add to the collection? IMHO the best bang for your buck you can possibly get out of your records is get them cleaned properly, which is solved by either a vacuum or ultrasonic solution. Many DIY approaches to this can be found on this forum. Cheap cleaning solutions can be mixed too.

 

[pdm4606]

My 1950's era ROK TT cost me $5 with an arm. I think it sounds great. I made a new arm and have around 50 cartridges that I cycle out from time to time. I never had so much fun in my 65 years of hi-fi.

 

[pdm4606]

My 1950's era ROK TT cost me $5 with an arm. I think it sounds great. I made a new arm and have around 50 cartridges that I cycle out from time to time. I never had so much fun in my 65 years of hi-fi.

My wife yelled at me because she said I always put financial stuff to my enjoyment. Maybe I do. But The stuff I buy doesn't work and needs work and I won't pay much for it.

 

[stereofisher]

Agree with what’s been said. I would replace the stylus and get a record cleaner of some sort. I use the Alsop Orbitrac. Inexpensive and works well. Hard to find though. Buy when I see one. Have one for each system (3). Technics made some nice turntables including yours. Enjoy!

 

[Flasher1170]

Approx how many records do you have now, and is your intent to continue to add to the collection? IMHO the best bang for your buck you can possibly get out of your records is get them cleaned properly, which is solved by either a vacuum or ultrasonic solution. Many DIY approaches to this can be found on this forum. Cheap cleaning solutions can be mixed too.

I probably have about 175-200 right now. About 2/3 of them are vintage. I have the Spin Clean record washer which I have been using and it has made huge gains in sound quality. Great suggestion for everyone mentioning it. Eventually I'll graduate to an automatic one.

I'm filling in my collection by buying new records that either intrigue me because its something interesting or because its something that i have listened to thousands of times streaming and feel kind of obligated and would like to own it physically. For example, just found an album "Belafonte Sings the Blues." Not rare by any means, but I had never heard it before and it was relatively inexpensive at a local record shop. Great album, I don't know that I would have stumbled on it through the usual Spotify sort of channels. Another recent purchase was Gulag Orkestar by Beirut. I have listened to it many hundreds of times so owning a copy and hearing it sound better than every before is special.