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Shunyata Venom 3 Power Cable...Pretty good!

finnbow said:
In one experiment, he got 54 oenology (the study of wine tasting and wine making) undergraduates together and had them taste one glass of red wine and one glass of white wine. He had them describe each wine in as much detail as their expertise would allow. What he didn't tell them was both were the same wine. He just dyed the white one red. In the other experiment, he asked the experts to rate two different bottles of red wine. One was very expensive, the other was cheap. Again, he tricked them. This time he had put the cheap wine in both bottles. So what were the results?

In short, we are all far more impressionable than we would like to admit and, in some cases, this trait may be hard-wired (pun intentional) in our brains.
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The devil is always in the detail.
In what field is an undergrad student thought of as an "expert." None. Who were these kids?
I don't disagree with your conclusion, expectation bias can be very strong IMO.
But I also believe that not-so-good wine and excellent wine can be distinguished pretty easily by real wine "experts" no matter the expectations.
 
sebrof said:
The devil is always in the detail.
In what field is an undergrad student thought of as an "expert." None. Who were these kids?
I don't disagree with your conclusion, expectation bias can be very strong IMO.
But I also believe that not-so-good wine and excellent wine can be distinguished pretty easily by real wine "experts" no matter the expectations.
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*Groan*

I am being taken back to research statistics and 400 level psychology classes from college. :D
 
signal-dude said:
If anyone has any ideas let me know and I'll see if I can check them.
Click to expand...

Below is a quote from the Nordost website regarding their Odin PC.

*"Suddenly the music will step away from the system producing it, taking on a life of its own, becoming a real performance, all because the power on which your system depends is cleaner and arriving quicker."

Maybe you should check the propagation speed delta!
 
sebrof said:
400 level? Are you sure?? :D
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The term undergrad got me. But, you are right; my senior year was inundated with a lot of reading and a lot of research papers :thmbsp: When you mentioned expectation bias I thought of research statistics. It has been many moons since those days :yes:
 
sebrof said:
Well, following up like I said I would. But I let the AK community down, I'm afraid.
A few friends and I visit each others house/systems once a month or so, last night it was my turn. My friend brought over his Shunyatas (He just got them new @ $125 each), said they were like the old Copperheads.
Anyway, the unwritten rule is whoever's house it is, that guy never sits in the sweet spot. So we listened to a song, swapped cables, and the guy in the sweet spot said he liked the improvement. Same with one other guy.
But by the time I got in the sweet spot to compare I had had about a half dozen beers and four fingers of Lagavulin and was in no condition to make a call one way or the other. Sounded GREAT, don't get me wrong, but probably had nothing to do with the PCs.
Better luck next time...
Click to expand...
OK, so next time was today. The pic shows Stock PC, PS Audio XTreme (??), Shunyata Viper 3. The stock and PS Audio are mine, Shunyata is my friend's.
My friend and I listened to a song with the stock cords on my CDP and integrated amp, then switched to the Shunyatas. We both heard a difference, no doubt about it. Bass was fuller, highs were more pronounced and sounded more natural. We switched back and forth a few times and both heard the same things.
But we also thought it was louder with the Shunyatas. I put in a test tone disk and measured @ 1000 Hz. With the Shunyatas the level was 81 db. With the stock cords the level was 77 db. I did it twice to make sure, same readings.
Which opens up the possibility that the "improvements" that we heard were just because the music was louder.
It also makes blind testing more difficult for me. I planned on asking my son or wife to swap cords (friend is at work), now level matching plays into it.

MWalt - Any chance your music is playing louder with the new Shunyatas and that's why you are hearing an improvement? Do you have a tone disk and meter?
Does anyone have an idea why a PC would affect level like this?

I am very surprised that the cord made a difference in level. For me, this is data that suggests that cords do something. Whether or not loudness is all they do I don't know, or if other cords also do this, etc. etc.
The search for the truth continues AFAIC.

Rega Apollo CDP, Manley Stingray integrated amp, Tekton Lore speakers.
 

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the new to the audio world, I have not seen this controversy before.
I also have a little bit of psych from college. being a bonafide skeptic, I firmly believe in confirmation bias.
I have electronics degree and a fair bit of knowledge of communications from working for Siemens for 20 years.
I won't say anybody is wrong, but I will require a double blind test before I'll take anecdotal evidence.
that being said, I could see how the last few feat of the powerline could affect the signaling.
forgive punctuation, posted from my phone.
 
sebrof said:
OK, so next time was today. The pic shows Stock PC, PS Audio XTreme (??), Shunyata Viper 3. The stock and PS Audio are mine, Shunyata is my friend's.
My friend and I listened to a song with the stock cords on my CDP and integrated amp, then switched to the Shunyatas. We both heard a difference, no doubt about it. Bass was fuller, highs were more pronounced and sounded more natural. We switched back and forth a few times and both heard the same things.
But we also thought it was louder with the Shunyatas. I put in a test tone disk and measured @ 1000 Hz. With the Shunyatas the level was 81 db. With the stock cords the level was 77 db. I did it twice to make sure, same readings.
Which opens up the possibility that the "improvements" that we heard were just because the music was louder.
It also makes blind testing more difficult for me. I planned on asking my son or wife to swap cords (friend is at work), now level matching plays into it.

MWalt - Any chance your music is playing louder with the new Shunyatas and that's why you are hearing an improvement? Do you have a tone disk and meter?
Does anyone have an idea why a PC would affect level like this?

I am very surprised that the cord made a difference in level. For me, this is data that suggests that cords do something. Whether or not loudness is all they do I don't know, or if other cords also do this, etc. etc.
The search for the truth continues AFAIC.

Rega Apollo CDP, Manley Stingray integrated amp, Tekton Lore speakers.
Click to expand...

What the hell! You actually had a difference in output! That is too bizarre.
 
gvalent said:
Below is a quote from the Nordost website regarding their Odin PC.

*"Suddenly the music will step away from the system producing it, taking on a life of its own, becoming a real performance, all because the power on which your system depends is cleaner and arriving quicker."

Maybe you should check the propagation speed delta!
Click to expand...

Ha Haaa!! Thats funny! But I've only got a DSO and a signal generator. I'm not in the electronics industry anymore so I have no access to nice test equipment.
 
sebrof said:
OK, so next time was today. The pic shows Stock PC, PS Audio XTreme (??), Shunyata Viper 3. The stock and PS Audio are mine, Shunyata is my friend's.
My friend and I listened to a song with the stock cords on my CDP and integrated amp, then switched to the Shunyatas. We both heard a difference, no doubt about it. Bass was fuller, highs were more pronounced and sounded more natural. We switched back and forth a few times and both heard the same things.
But we also thought it was louder with the Shunyatas. I put in a test tone disk and measured @ 1000 Hz. With the Shunyatas the level was 81 db. With the stock cords the level was 77 db. I did it twice to make sure, same readings.
Which opens up the possibility that the "improvements" that we heard were just because the music was louder.
It also makes blind testing more difficult for me. I planned on asking my son or wife to swap cords (friend is at work), now level matching plays into it.

MWalt - Any chance your music is playing louder with the new Shunyatas and that's why you are hearing an improvement? Do you have a tone disk and meter?
Does anyone have an idea why a PC would affect level like this?

I am very surprised that the cord made a difference in level. For me, this is data that suggests that cords do something. Whether or not loudness is all they do I don't know, or if other cords also do this, etc. etc.
The search for the truth continues AFAIC.

Rega Apollo CDP, Manley Stingray integrated amp, Tekton Lore speakers.
Click to expand...

That looks like a Venom 3, is it not?

Your findings are interesting. Certainly for me it was obvious that the level was higher but the reason was because the music is more forward...so can we measure forward vs recessed relative to SPL :dunno:. Turning the volume up to match the Shunyata with my Van den Hul cord simply revealed a louder yet still recessed sound...in other words the music still sounded different with the the 2 power cords even at the same or similar volume.:scratch2:
 
OK, so before this blows up. I'm having a little trouble replicating my earlier results. Give me a minute.
 
Are they still plating the plugs on the Venom 3 with rhodium, or have they switched to gold? I ask because I think (though not sure) they did that with the Diamondback. Mine is one of the later ones with gold-plated plugs.
 
A whole lotta nothin'

Well, got a chance to look at the amp output with input shorted and found no difference in noise with either cords. Used the wide band and 10Khz. bandwidth modes of the scope.

Today I hear no difference in sound with either cord.

Wtf, eh?
 
Mr. Lin said:
Are they still plating the plugs on the Venom 3 with rhodium, or have they switched to gold? I ask because I think (though not sure) they did that with the Diamondback. Mine is one of the later ones with gold-plated plugs.
Click to expand...

It isn't gold, that I can say for sure, Dave.
 
One of the reviews I read a while back said it was rhodium on the new Venom 3 plugs, so that's probably what they're using.
 
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