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Shure M91ED needles , Genuine ?

Gary Mattis

Gary Mattis

Active Member
Anyone have some real Sure M91ED needles ? , not interested in fakes, want the real thing ? For my juke box. From what I understand it was a nude diamond and that is what made the Shure M91ED needles better then the replacements. Will take used if in good condition still. The cartridges are all over for 20 or 30 bucks with cheaper replacement needles, I just don't think the replacement needles are really good enough. If it's not a nude diamond needle it is a fake needle for these cartridge's. I like how it sounds now with the Shure needle in it , should I change the whole cartridge next time or keep looking for a Shure M91ED needle ? . I have a 1963 stereo juke box with a tube amp so sound quality is a major issue. I'm not rich though and I have to consider cost, $ 345 for a brand new NOS needle and cartridge in the box is just too much for me ! . Just looking for needles or ideas for when mine wears out, I'm guessing it's 40 years old by now , though it may not have been in there that long, but I do need to soon start thinking about a replacement needle or cartridge for it.
 
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Thing 1 - you need to become a member and use Bartertown for this sort of WTB ad.

Thing 2 - A Shure M91ED uses a rather compliant stylus designed to track at 1.5 grams and is not what you'd want in the arm of a stock record changer used in jukebox, probably wouldn't last long. Very surprised it still works and hasn't collapsed already.
 
SiliconTi said:
What about a JICO replacement?
Click to expand...

JICO replacement would be :

".3 x .7 mil Bonded Elliptical Needle"

"Original Shure N91ED was .2 X .7mil Diamond Elliptical tip needle " - nude mounted. :)

(I have not check the price for NOS Shure M91ED on Ebay recently, sure have gone up.
Not going to sell my though.)


 
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I agree, the N91ED stylus (and the bonded N91E) would track too light for jukebox use (0.75 to 1.5 grams). However, there is also the N93E (light green color) that is also made for that body and will track at 1.5 to 3 grams. They show up on ebay from time to time and are much lower in price than the N91ED.
 
audiojones said:
Thing 1 - you need to become a member and use Bartertown for this sort of WTB ad.

Thing 2 - A Shure M91ED uses a rather compliant stylus designed to track at 1.5 grams and is not what you'd want in the arm of a stock record changer used in jukebox, probably wouldn't last long. Very surprised it still works and hasn't collapsed already.
Click to expand...

I would not use M91 in a jukebox. Agree with above^^^. Go on Amazon and get a Shure M44. Have used these since I was 16..the year of the dinosaurs! Helped a friend with a Jukebox a few years ago. That's what was on it! Fifty bucks good to go. I like the M91ED, just not where you want to use it. Have on happily on my Dual 601. If you decide to use it, get generic from Gary at Voiceofmusicenthuseasts.com. Aren't bad for under $20. Have one on the 601. Much as I like the Jicos, might be a bit of overkill. My 2 cents.

Eric
 
I'm in agreement with the comments above. But I am less confident about your assumption that a bonded stylus is necessarily inferior to a nude diamond. Bonded stylii may be less massy, and are certainly cheaper, so for a given price, a more sophisticated stylus may be possible. When nude stylii are cut (and accurately) on a square stock, and mounted in a matching hole, then correct alignment is more certain, but all you have to have done is read reports on cartridges over the years to realize that screw ups do happen. So I think that there is not a necessary correlation between nudity and excellence (in this context, and others, also).
Having said that, the M 91ed was an excellent cartridge, and almost boringly predictably reliable. What is really amazing is that it could be bought anywhere for $14.95 for most of the 70s. Certainly $14.95 went a lot further back then than it does now, but I can't think of a comparably priced (in adjusted dollars) that I would consider for a moment if it were still available at whatever that adjusted price would be. (A little bit more, with the Stanton 681eee coming into play, would change my choice, but that's not the immediate issue).
 
Nat said:
But I am less confident about your assumption that a bonded stylus is necessarily inferior to a nude diamond. Bonded stylii may be less massy, and are certainly cheaper, so for a given price, a more sophisticated stylus may be possible.
Click to expand...

While we can't be certain that other changes weren't made, the (genuine) nude N91ED stylus trackability was slightly better than the bonded N91E at all frequencies, according to Shure's figures.

Trackability (in cm/sec peak recorded velocity at 400 Hz, 1kHz, 5kHz and 10kHz, with a tracking force of 1g):
N91E: 20, 28, 25, 18
N91ED: 22, 33, 28, 19

There wasn’t much in it, except at 1kHz (and probably other midrange frequencies) where it was 18% better, but people started buying the N91ED rather than the N91E stylus, which was soon dropped from the range.
 
Shure M35X, SC35C or the M44-7, which is what was used in many mid 60's jukes. Those are the ones you want. Not the 91 Great cart but not for a juke.
 
Clearly you have the proof that, at least in the case of the M91, the bonded stylus is inferior. Whether that is true across the board for all cartridges I don't know. You are also correct in commenting that you don't know how significant that improvement would actually be, especially with moderately modulated records. But thanks for the information.
 
Since the M91 is already mounted, install an N35X on that cartridge. Cheap and genuine and sounds very good. There are lots of other options too. N91G, N75B or N75C, N95G. The list is seemingly endless, but I wouldn't put a relatively high compliance stylus into that application. You need something that tracks well around 3 grams.

Nude styli show their superiority in high shelf applications, i.e. very light tracking, low tip mass, special cuts that need to be mounted perfectly. In something tracking at more than 2 grams and a relatively simple cut I expect the benefits of a nude diamond would mostly go unnoticed.
 
Get a M 44 cartridge (commonly used in AMI-Rowe and post 1967 Rock-Ola jukeboxes). They used the C stylus (the heavier tracking option, Jico makes a terrific replacement for that, Shure discontinued that variant. If the arm can be lightened to 3 grams, the M 44-7 is excellent. And genuine still available for it. As posted above, the Shure M 91ED and variants is not appropriate for jukebox applications, as this is too light tracking for the tonearm systems used in jukebox applications.
 
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Imo, the value of a M91 is it's compatibility with some pretty good inexpensive aftermarket stylii. For what the OEM stylii are going for, there are better cart choices.
Also, I wouldn't overthink the SQ potential of a 45 coin-op thumper box.
 
Gretsch6120 said:
I agree, the N91ED stylus (and the bonded N91E) would track too light for jukebox use (0.75 to 1.5 grams). However, there is also the N93E (light green color) that is also made for that body and will track at 1.5 to 3 grams. They show up on ebay from time to time and are much lower in price than the N91ED.
Click to expand...

Can confirm as I just bought an NOS N93E from the States and with shipping it was under 50$ CAD.
 
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