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Signet MR-e vs Audio Technica AT450 on a Technics SL1300

RunOutGroove

RunOutGroove

Addicted Member
I have a Technics SL 1300 turntable and I've lately been somewhat underwhelmed with the sound I'm getting from it. I suspect that a worn stylus is likely partly to blame as it's been years since I bought the cartridge that I have on it, a Signet MR-e, that I believe that I only bought when I was unable to find a replacement stylus for what I had before (which I can't remember). Suffice to say that it's been quite a few years since I bought the cartridge...

I'm wondering what the best option might be...? I don't have hundreds to spend on a new higher end cart so do I get a new stylus for the Signet or do I spend just a bit more than that on a new cartridge? I seem to remember seeing something on the forum about an Audio Technica AT450 cartridge being sold on ebay that was a particularly good buy https://www.ebay.com/itm/AUDIO-TECHNICA-AT450-UNIVERSAL-phono-cartridge-elliptical-diamond-NEW-RARE/173273317326?epid=664696061&hash=item2857e4ffce:g:kqwAAOSwIVhZ5o4O
This thing is not much more than the cost of the replacement stylus for the Signet, but will it be an improvement and will it be a good match for my table? Even if it's only about as good as the Signet, is it a better idea to replace the whole cart rather than just the stylus (do cartridges wear out?). If not, is there a better cartridge/better deal that I should be considering? I would be willing to spend a bit more than the AT cartridge (even double that) if I'm likely to get much better sound.

Also, I'm thinking of paying a local stereo shop to do the setup of my table, whether or not I get a brand new cart or just a stylus for the old. I'm wondering though if this is likely to be money well spent or if I would be likely to do as well buying some sort of calibration tool, watching a youtube how-to video on the process and doing the whole thing myself... Is it something that tends to be difficult to get right or is the process pretty user friendly?
 
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Tiver said:
Signet MR 5.0xx ? This stylus from lptunes is a good price and will fit your cartridge.

Also the SL-1300 is an easy set up.
Click to expand...
I can't find any # on it... it's got a movable guard for the stylus on the front of it with the letters "MR e" on it. If the "5" is the common MR e designation that this is probably the right one... Is there any surefire way to know what model it is? That stylus isn't super expensive, but is more than the other cart, with stylus included so I suppose that you think that this one that I have is worth a throwing a bit of money at, no?

Also I see that this replacement stylus you've directed me says it's for the "MR" so is that going to be compatible with my cart, the "e" version? I just want to make sure before I order the thing... Thanks!
 
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Aaron Hayman said:
Also, I see this stylus on sale for less than half the price. Unfortunately there's no photo, but I wonder if you can tell from the description if it's as good as the one in the link posted... it's certainly cheaper.

https://www.lpgear.com/product/SIGMRN50e.html
Click to expand...

The lpgear stylus is a lesser choice than the AT7V. Although not much of a description, it's likely a bonded elliptical stylus on a basic aluminum tube cantilever. So if it fits your cart body (which we aren't 100% sure of), it would be an OK budget friendly choice. The AT7V is a nude mounted, finer elliptical diamond on a tapered aluminum cantilever. It would be capable of better sound quality, but it may or may not be realized in a given system.

The AT450 is a universal cartridge with a nude mounted elliptical stylus. Universal cartridges are P-mountable cartridges that come with an adapter for a universal 1/2" mount application. That cartridge has been offered on ebay for quite a while and many have sold. It used to be a few dollars cheaper, but it is still a very good value for a nude mounted stylus and it has been mentioned favorably in other posts on AK.

If you opt for the AT450, hang on to the body of the Signet. You may desire to find a new stylus later down the road. Your Technics SL-1300 is a decent table. There are certainly many choices in cartridges available. You asked about improved sound quality for various budgets, but that's really hard to answer because so much depends on the user's listening habits, requirements and experience all combined with the rest of the system. @illini suggests that you give it a chance and that seems reasonable to me as well.

So long as you're not all thumbs, mounting up a new cart on your deck is straightforward. Squaring it in the headshell and measuring the overhang is the basic requirement to get up and running, although there are possibly slightly different geometries that can be used. Balance the arm, set the tracking force and anti-skate and play records.

If you get a different cart and aren't sure if you are set up correctly, ask for some help on the forum. If you want to try and verify the cart you have, you could take some pictures and post them. If you can remove the stylus and take pictures of the parts that mate together that would be the way to go. Also, the cartridge ID is probably on the top covered by the headshell. Taking it off the headshell will mean you have to re-align it. Of course, replacing the cart altogether means you have to align the new one, so ......
 
The Signet carts were AT's high end line. I would try a generic replacement on it, such as the lpgear one posted, or even one of the voice of music replacements. Technics alignment is super simple, don't pay someone to do it. Just make sure the cart is squared in the head shell, and stylus point is exactly 52mm from base. That should give you a Stevenson alignment that minimizes inner groove distortion.
 
Tiver said:
The lpgear stylus is a lesser choice than the AT7V. Although not much of a description, it's likely a bonded elliptical stylus on a basic aluminum tube cantilever. So if it fits your cart body (which we aren't 100% sure of), it would be an OK budget friendly choice. The AT7V is a nude mounted, finer elliptical diamond on a tapered aluminum cantilever. It would be capable of better sound quality, but it may or may not be realized in a given system.

The AT450 is a universal cartridge with a nude mounted elliptical stylus. Universal cartridges are P-mountable cartridges that come with an adapter for a universal 1/2" mount application. That cartridge has been offered on ebay for quite a while and many have sold. It used to be a few dollars cheaper, but it is still a very good value for a nude mounted stylus and it has been mentioned favorably in other posts on AK.

If you opt for the AT450, hang on to the body of the Signet. You may desire to find a new stylus later down the road. Your Technics SL-1300 is a decent table. There are certainly many choices in cartridges available. You asked about improved sound quality for various budgets, but that's really hard to answer because so much depends on the user's listening habits, requirements and experience all combined with the rest of the system. @illini suggests that you give it a chance and that seems reasonable to me as well.

So long as you're not all thumbs, mounting up a new cart on your deck is straightforward. Squaring it in the headshell and measuring the overhang is the basic requirement to get up and running, although there are possibly slightly different geometries that can be used. Balance the arm, set the tracking force and anti-skate and play records.

If you get a different cart and aren't sure if you are set up correctly, ask for some help on the forum. If you want to try and verify the cart you have, you could take some pictures and post them. If you can remove the stylus and take pictures of the parts that mate together that would be the way to go. Also, the cartridge ID is probably on the top covered by the headshell. Taking it off the headshell will mean you have to re-align it. Of course, replacing the cart altogether means you have to align the new one, so ......
Click to expand...

Thanks for you advice here... I think that I'm going to get that AT450. I looked at some videos on how to set up the table and none of it seems too intimidating. I'll see if the local stereo shop has a protractor thing that I can buy from them and then I'll be all set. Oddly, it only recently dawned on me just how poor the sound I'm getting from my table is, but once I put on the new cart and make the necessary adjustments, I'm sure that it'll be a world of difference. I'll keep the old cartridge and if for some reason I'm not happy with the AT450 I'll buy a stylus (the better one) for the old Signet and try that out. I think I might get another head shell and mount it on that for the quick swap option though... Thanks again for the advice...
 
Aaron Hayman said:
I think that I'm going to get that AT450. (...)
Click to expand...

Not the best idea, I'd say - and I'd rather suggest you to consider the ATN7V recommended by Tiver.

I.e., keep in mind, that the AT450 is a T4P cartridge, you'd need to use with a halfinch-mount adaptor - and T4P carts were typically designed for light to very light arms, while the arm of your SL-1300 is medium-heavy (with the halfinch-mount adaptor adding a bit of additional weight...). So the AT450 will most likely be a sub-optimal match in terms of compliance.

The other problem is, that a T4P cart in a halfinch-mount adaptor will typically have a height of ca. 20 mm, while your SL-1300 doesn't sport arm height adjustment, iirc - hence it's pretty likely, that this would lead to a problematic cartridge orientation with extremely little clearance between the rear part of the cartridge bottom and the record surface and also a somewhat sub-optimal SRA, unless you'd compensate for that by either wedged/angled cart mounting or a thinner platter mat. So, while the AT450 from "wolfsbigbadgarage" still is pretty attractively priced, I'd rather deem it a problematic choice for your SL-1300.

And no, MM cartridge bodies typically don't wear out, reasonable storage conditions provided.

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini
 
lini said:
Not the best idea, I'd say - and I'd rather suggest you to consider the ATN7V recommended by Tiver.

I.e., keep in mind, that the AT450 is a T4P cartridge, you'd need to use with a halfinch-mount adaptor - and T4P carts were typically designed for light to very light arms, while the arm of your SL-1300 is medium-heavy (with the halfinch-mount adaptor adding a bit of additional weight...). So the AT450 will most likely be a sub-optimal match in terms of compliance.

The other problem is, that a T4P cart in a halfinch-mount adaptor will typically have a height of ca. 20 mm, while your SL-1300 doesn't sport arm height adjustment, iirc - hence it's pretty likely, that this would lead to a problematic cartridge orientation with extremely little clearance between the rear part of the cartridge bottom and the record surface and also a somewhat sub-optimal SRA, unless you'd compensate for that by either wedged/angled cart mounting or a thinner platter mat. So, while the AT450 from "wolfsbigbadgarage" still is pretty attractively priced, I'd rather deem it a problematic choice for your SL-1300.

And no, MM cartridge bodies typically don't wear out, reasonable storage conditions provided.

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini
Click to expand...
Great... that's good to know. I didn't order that thing yet and knowing all of this stuff I won't... but I will order the stylus for the old cart. Hard to believe that this matching stuff is such a PIA, I tell ya! I can understand that there are a few makes that use proprietary cartridges, but I might have assumed that for the rest there would be something more like a universal standard. It's stuff like this which inspires me to ask so many questions on this forum. I really wouldn't have known from reading any of the stuff that I did (and I tend to always do a bit of research before I buy something) that this AT cartridge might be problematic with my table...
 
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