SME 3009 s2 imp correct alignment

[Alfmonster]

I’ve just recently realized that my SME 3009 S2 imp may not have ever been properly set up.

Is there a specific arc that the 3009s2 imp arm should be following? I have it set to the baerwald arc but have been reading in other posts that the correct arc is the Stevenson? The posts regarding the correct arc for this tonearm seems varied.

the SME 3009 s2 imp is currently being used with a Shure v15 type 3 w/ vn35mr stylus on a garrard 401.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Mr Boochie]

I used a MoFi Geo-Disc to align my 3009. Which is close to the Baerwald geometry. Seems to work fine. Also, care is needed in setting the azimuth and vertical tracking angle. I used a circular bubble level to set the azimuth and tonearm angle.

 

[Alfmonster]

I used a MoFi Geo-Disc to align my 3009. Which is close to the Baerwald geometry. Seems to work fine. Also, care is needed in setting the azimuth and vertical tracking angle. I used a circular bubble level to set the azimuth and tonearm angle.

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That’s such great information! So is baerwald arc the best/correct arc for the SME3009?

That’s a really wonderful trick with the circular level - never thought of that

 

[Mr Boochie]

That’s such great information! So is baerwald arc the best/correct arc for the SME3009?

That’s a really wonderful trick with the circular level - never thought of that

Baerwald works for me. BTW, it's on a restored, old Sony 2251 turntable.

Be sure the top of your headshell is parallel to the record surface. Technics style headshells are parallel closer to the knurled knob. I adjusted the tracking to account for the bubble level's weight.

 

[Blue Shadow]

The arc you decide to use is up to you. Some tables have specific arcs built in to the alignment gear supplied with the table but if you look at vinyl engine about alignment you will see that the Baerwald will offer the lowest error over the three spots.

Stevenson gives best at the record center but the error on the outer edge of the record is a lot more than Baerwald.

When you scribe an arc across the line from spindle to record edge, you will hit that line in two spots max. If you hit only one the inner and outer edges will have too much tracking error.

So you pick your poison unless you have a linear tracking arm. I like the evenness of the error at the beginning middle and end of the record that Baerwald supplies compared to the LofgrenB and Stevenson.

Use this form to fill in some data and see the curves drawn.
https://www.vinylengine.com/tonearm_alignment_calculator_pro.php

Here it is filled out for the Magnepan Unitrac I which follows the Lofgren A which is Baerwald and unseen because it is identical to the Baerwald.
https://www.vinylengine.com/tonearm...=iec1&ogv=&ig=iec&igv=&cal=y&submit=calculate

Back in January 1980 Audio magazine showed the errors for 22 tonearms and only three of them were what Audio thought was correct. Magnepan was one of them.

 

[Alfmonster]

The arc you decide to use is up to you. Some tables have specific arcs built in to the alignment gear supplied with the table but if you look at vinyl engine about alignment you will see that the Baerwald will offer the lowest error over the three spots.

Stevenson gives best at the record center but the error on the outer edge of the record is a lot more than Baerwald.

When you scribe an arc across the line from spindle to record edge, you will hit that line in two spots max. If you hit only one the inner and outer edges will have too much tracking error.

So you pick your poison unless you have a linear tracking arm. I like the evenness of the error at the beginning middle and end of the record that Baerwald supplies compared to the LofgrenB and Stevenson.

Use this form to fill in some data and see the curves drawn.
https://www.vinylengine.com/tonearm_alignment_calculator_pro.php

Here it is filled out for the Magnepan Unitrac I which follows the Lofgren A which is Baerwald and unseen because it is identical to the Baerwald.
https://www.vinylengine.com/tonearm...=iec1&ogv=&ig=iec&igv=&cal=y&submit=calculate

Back in January 1980 Audio magazine showed the errors for 22 tonearms and only three of them were what Audio thought was correct. Magnepan was one of them.

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this is very helpful - thanks for all of the great information and resources.

I printed off a baerwald protractor for a Thorens - will this same protractor work for the garrard 401?

also is it possible to hit the point in 3 places on the arc? The tone seems to be hitting all 3 points - or am I doing something wrong?

 

[Mr Boochie]

this is very helpful - thanks for all of the great information and resources.

I printed off a baerwald protractor for a Thorens - will this same protractor work for the garrard 401?

also is it possible to hit the point in 3 places on the arc? The tone seems to be hitting all 3 points - or am I doing something wrong?

Same protractor should work for all turntables with pivoting tonearms of the same length. .

 

[Blue Shadow]

If you draw a straight line from the spindle to the edge of the record and then swing the arm over the record from edge to center you will only be able to have 2 points of intersection as the arm goes from below the line to above the line and again as the arm crosses back to below the line

Complicated math for all this is on the January 1980 issue of Audio magazine available for download at

Www.worldradiohistory.com.

Stay on topic when you go there and get the article before you get lost in all the magazines they have available.

Easy way to find it is select the A box on left column to narrow down the list. Then Audio Magazine which starts on the line with Audience Research Page.

 

[Alfmonster]

If you draw a straight line from the spindle to the edge of the record and then swing the arm over the record from edge to center you will only be able to have 2 points of intersection as the arm goes from below the line to above the line and again as the arm crosses back to below the line

Complicated math for all this is on the January 1980 issue of Audio magazine available for download at

Www.worldradiohistory.com.

Stay on topic when you go there and get the article before you get lost in all the magazines they have available.

Easy way to find it is select the A box on left column to narrow down the list. Then Audio Magazine which starts on the line with Audience Research Page.

That makes a lot of sense. I printed a free baerwald protractor from vinyl engine and it showed three points on the arc - but the straight line would definitely make that 2.

maybe also @Mr Boochie could say bc he has a MoFi geodisc but how does something like that compare with a free (correctly printed) paper protractor from vinyl engine?

Is there a difference? I printed it on luster photopaper and put clear tape over the arc line. The only issue I’ve had is that it doesn’t sit 100%flat. There is a slight lift where the paper curls towards the edge of the platter - so I have to end up weighting that down with something.

 

[Blue Shadow]

The use of a printed from the web vs a manufactured device if both were produced to the same exacting specifications of accuracy, a mm is a big error, will make no difference. Convenience or method to use or in the case of the Feickert, the ability to have all three common alignments on the same tool are the only differences. With the Feickert one does not need to rotate the platter or move the protractor as is done with some. The Magnepan is something the size of a playing card. Others are longer like a bookmark and then there are the ones the shape of records. They all are designed to do the same thing, get the nail exactly where it should be for proper alignment, using one or more of the three common alignments.

 

[vinylrayk]

It depends on the serial number of your S2 Improved.

Below sn439606 designed for null points at 60.4/117.3 mm

Above sn439606 designed for null points at 66.0/120.9 mm

https://www.vinylengine.com/tonearm...efhi=&mdlo=&mdhi=&ohlo=&ohhi=&amlo=&amhi=&cw=

Ray K

 

[Blue Shadow]

It depends on the serial number of your S2 Improved.

brings up the question of what were the changes. Here is the VE tracking distortions based on the early and late versions of the Improved arm. Marked SME E for early Improved and SME L for the later version based on the seridal number you posted.

What changed on the arm to make the null point differences necessary? The data used to get these graphs is effective length (same for both), overhang and cartridge offset angle both different between the two arms. The overhang is easily handled with the movement of the arm base a bit. The offset angle is just twisting the cartridge in the headshell before bolting it tight. I know there isn't much rotational play but probably enough for the ° or two needed to make the change.

These two graphs are very close to Lofgren A which is Baerwald but they both start out with a Lofgren B at the outer edge of the record.

Note the Lofgren A has the lowest maximum tracking error and the peaks are equal start, middle and end of the record.

 

[vinylrayk]

All the data to answer to your questions are listed on the link I provided.

 

[Blue Shadow]

All the data to answer to your questions are listed on the link I provided.

Well the alignment data, overhang and offset are different but the physical parts of the tonearm remain unchanged as best as I can tell. With the higher error at the beginning, middle and end of the record compared to the Barewald alignment, I'd just use that B (Lofgren A) and not worry about the serial number.

 

[Alfmonster]

Well the alignment data, overhang and offset are different but the physical parts of the tonearm remain unchanged as best as I can tell. With the higher error at the beginning, middle and end of the record compared to the Barewald alignment, I'd just use that B (Lofgren A) and not worry about the serial number.

this is again really helpful - so I couldn’t get the Feickert protractor like I wanted. however I did just now order a geodisk. I guess at the very least I’ll see how close my print out was to the geodisc. And perhaps if I find this very helpful - I may then pick up the Feickert at some point in the near future.

I read that some some people desire the original DrFeickert protractor as opposed to the newer iteration - mark 2? Probably splitting hairs…although I guess splitting hairs count in this form of measurement.

@vinylrayk thanks for that difference in measurement - didn’t realize that the SME S2 imp had different specs depending on the serial numbers. Very helpful!

 

[Mr Boochie]

this is again really helpful - so I couldn’t get the Feickert protractor like I wanted. however I did just now order a geodisk. I guess at the very least I’ll see how close my print out was to the geodisc. And perhaps if I find this very helpful - I may then pick up the Feickert at some point in the near future.

I read that some some people desire the original DrFeickert protractor as opposed to the newer iteration - mark 2? Probably splitting hairs…although I guess splitting hairs count in this form of measurement.

@vinylrayk thanks for that difference in measurement - didn’t realize that the SME S2 imp had different specs depending on the serial numbers. Very helpful!

Make sure you line up the "A-B" line with the pivot point of your tonearm. I had to sand off a bit of the raised "E" line so the over-sized SME knurled ring would not interfere.

 

[Alfmonster]

Make sure you line up the "A-B" line with the pivot point of your tonearm. I had to sand off a bit of the raised "E" line so the over-sized SME knurled ring would not interfere.

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Thanks so much for the heads up!

How does one use that graph to figure out the overhand? I’m still a little confused on that with the SME headshell.

I see the measurements online and all but can’t seem to make sense of it.

 

[Mr Boochie]

Thanks so much for the heads up!

How does one use that graph to figure out the overhand? I’m still a little confused on that with the SME headshell.

I see the measurements online and all but can’t seem to make sense of it.

I just square the stylus to the hash marks on the grid. Be sure tip in in the white circle. Align the cartridge sides and ends to square-up with the grids. The Denon's straight line on the front of the cartridge is nice for eyeballing how perpendicular the shell is to the surface of the platter.

I use a piece of masking tape to keep the platter from moving, awhile I align the cartridge.

 

[Alfmonster]

I just square the stylus to the hash marks on the grid. Be sure tip in in the white circle. Align the cartridge sides and ends to square-up with the grids. The Denon's straight line on the front of the cartridge is nice for eyeballing how perpendicular the shell is to the surface of the platter.

I use a piece of masking tape to keep the platter from moving, awhile I align the cartridge.

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Thank you!!!! So helpful. Now I suppose I just wait til the alignment disc gets here. Looking forward to this

 

[Mr Boochie]

Thank you!!!! So helpful. Now I suppose I just wait til the alignment disc gets here. Looking forward to this

Good luck! Keep us posted.