• Please note that Audiokarma will be offline briefly for updates early on Monday morning, September 28th.

SME 3009 Series II Non Improved vs Improved

J

Jordan Blake

New Member
Hi all -

I have a choice between buying a Non Improved 3009 and an Improved one for my Garrard 401, anyone have a preference. I am new to ' audiophile ' turntables so just looking for some advice.

Thanks
 
Register to hide this ad
Welcome to AK!

Consider you're designated cart. The "improved" is low mass with ~6.5g Meff and should go with high compliance (springy/lighter) carts. The non-imp is more versatile in this regard.
 
tnsilver said:
Welcome to AK!

Consider you're designated cart. The "improved" is low mass with ~6.5g Meff and should go with high compliance (springy/lighter) carts. The non-imp is more versatile in this regard.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the reply, I have an Ortofon 2M Silver, Red and also a Shure VMS 20e Mark 2 from previous decks. Are this more fitting towards a non-improved?
 
The VMS20E M-II is actually an Ortofon (not a Shure). It's a good candidate for the non-imp and a superb cart.
IMO the other O'fon carts you mentioned are not worth going the SME path, whether it's improved or not.
 
tnsilver said:
The VMS20E M-II is actually an Ortofon (not a Shure). It's a good candidate for the non-imp and a superb cart.
IMO the other O'fon carts you mentioned are not worth going the SME path, whether it's improved or not.
Click to expand...
Agree with that. A top quality vintage tonearm should have a damn fine cartridge on it. Unfortunately that is expensive new, a grand or so. But great used are available and retipping is also an option for the best cartridges.

SME 3009 S2 Imp (removable headshell) 9.5 gram effective mass
SME 3009 Series II Imp (non-removable headshell) 6.5 gram.

These are the SME names for these two nearly identical arms from the same time period, according to their brochure for these two arms.

The earlier arm is generally preferred because the lightness of the above arms lead to a flimsiness of the arm tube according to the stuff I've read. I have the 3009 S2 Imp and am happy with it and haven't had an earlier model to compare.
 
Montycat said:
My 3009 S2 Improved sounds just fine with the VMS-20E MkII
Click to expand...
Yeah, well, believe it or not I meant to say the "non-detachable" rather than the "non-imp". It's better than my last "Throens" typo which you've found funny enough, yet a mistake nonetheless. Sorry. I meant the VMS20E is better matched with the lighter SME 3009 variant. I'm using it too.

However... None of this is what I'd expect to find on a Garrard 401. Not the tonearm, not the carts. It's all too bread-and-butter. I'd expect an Ortofon RS, SME 3012 S1, maybe a Jelco and definitely a better and rigid MC cart.
 
tnsilver said:
Welcome to AK!

Consider you're designated cart. The "improved" is low mass with ~6.5g Meff and should go with high compliance (springy/lighter) carts. The non-imp is more versatile in this regard.
Click to expand...

The "Improved" has two different arm mass.

Nonremovable headshell = 6.5 grams
Removable headshell = 9.5 grams

The "Improved" series, some have RCA signal outputs, so you can use any tonearm signal cable with RCA ends on it. Mine has this feature.
 
tnsilver said:
It's a DIY mod / conversion kit. They don't come this way.
Click to expand...

It's a factory SME installation, they did come this way! The "Improved" series started in the '70's and was made until the early '90's. Somewhere along the way SME switched to the RCA outputs.
 
There is also the 3009 "R" series made in the early '80's. The arm tube is stainless steel with arm mass of 12 grams for the 9" arm, a 12" was available too. The unique feature with this arm, the back half of the arm tube (behind the pivot), the whole end stub can be moved left or right of the main arm tube! Better lateral balance, with using different headshell mass. The "R" series costs more than the other 3009 series arms, and are harder to find. These also have the RCA signal outputs.

SME_3009R.jpg
 
tnsilver said:
Yeah, well, believe it or not I meant to say the "non-detachable" rather than the "non-imp". It's better than my last "Throens" typo which you've found funny enough, yet a mistake nonetheless.
Click to expand...

I just had to laugh at that as we were discussing "genuine" belts. I've seen typos on counterfeit more often but even official gear too so maybe I should check my belts! :)
 
Montycat said:
My 3009 S2 Improved sounds just fine with the VMS-20E MkII

View attachment 1187054
Click to expand...
I'd be looking into adjusting the azimuth on that cartridge. It appears in the pic to be skewed a bit.

From straight ahead the reflection should match the cartridge and not be tilted. But in that pic, I don't know the specifics of the point of view.
 
I know what you mean but it's the camera perspective. I thought that too after looking at the image.
 
Last edited:
tnsilver said:
Hold it cat, you're not in the clear yet! What's with the headshell? That doesn't look very SME to me...
Seriously, it is kinda uniquely bizarre with the finger lift all the way up front... What is it?
Click to expand...

A Nagaoka/Jeweltone. Yes, not all original but I had the Ortofon and it sitting side by each so put them together. The total weight was also very close to the SME with V15 IV.

20180514_205403.jpg
 
Jordan Blake said:
Hi all -

I have a choice between buying a Non Improved 3009 and an Improved one for my Garrard 401, anyone have a preference. I am new to ' audiophile ' turntables so just looking for some advice.

Thanks
Click to expand...

Hey @Jordan Blake,

Welcome to AK, I run the 3009S2 With improvements, I really like it. I was in the same boat, the gent I got the arm from had both for me to choose from... I like the RCA set up, and removable headshell. Both are good arms, just make sure you run a comparable cart.

IMG_4400.JPG
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom