Smooth small modern bookshelves

[bhairavi]

If you ask what I think. You started with a low end Canton and expected it to perform past it's capabilities and then say you hate the Canton sound which is silly. What you describe I've never heard from any Canton. Your looking to get by with cheap being a priority. Not a good way to go. From reading your posts it seems like your throwing cheap buys at the wall to see what sticks. You want big smooth sound from a 15" high speaker you either need to curb your expectations or step up to the plate with a decent amount of coin. There so many new good small speakers out there now why would you hamstring your search by price.

You want better advice you should give the room dimensions, sound treatments if done and what piece your using to drive your speakers.

Buddy I want speakers for cheap, not cheap speakers. But you're right, I am throwing cheap buys at the wall, so to speak. That's the point. Try a whole bunch of speakers without spending lots of money.

So far the two pairs of Energys are a hit, and the Sierras, which are not cheap in any way, are out of this world. By the way they are all under 15" and they beat the pants off both Cantons in every category. The Cantons certainly don't look cheaply made. I find it difficult to believe out of all the small speakers I've bought, now and in the past year, these are the only ones so affected by crossover components. Hence the reason I looked up more about the Canton sound, which seems to confirm that yes they do have this particular sound. And it just so happens to be the kind of sound I hate. Therefore I'm more confident in not needing to futz about with them, I'll just pass them on.

 

[rickb119]

Did you decide to pass on the Super One's?

 

[bhairavi]

Did you decide to pass on the Super One's?

Nope, definitely picking those up, and likely the superzeroes as well, just haven't got an opportunity to go down that way (about two hours' drive).

BTW I was surprised by how mellow the Sierras are - you had mentioned they might be bright but I don't find that at all! Not forward, not bright, and good bass. They just might be perfect... but I wonder what I'm missing without the ribbons

 

[rickb119]

Perhaps I erred in calling them bright. My issue was that they bothered my tinnitus, as do many other speakers. The ribbon tweeters (mostly) alleviate that problem.

I really don't understand why some do, and some don't. I'm OK with my KEF 104/2's and Norman Lab Model 8's. Most Klipsch (and pretty much all metal dome tweeter) speakers will send my tinnitus into hyper drive.

I'm glad you're pleased with the Sierra's. The ribbons simply add a bit more detail and clarity. Although now, with my rapidly failing hearing, I doubt I could hear the difference between the two. Other than the tinnitus thing, of course.

 

[jayvis]

Buddy I want speakers for cheap, not cheap speakers. But you're right, I am throwing cheap buys at the wall, so to speak. That's the point. Try a whole bunch of speakers without spending lots of money.

So far the two pairs of Energys are a hit, and the Sierras, which are not cheap in any way, are out of this world. By the way they are all under 15" and they beat the pants off both Cantons in every category. The Cantons certainly don't look cheaply made. I find it difficult to believe out of all the small speakers I've bought, now and in the past year, these are the only ones so affected by crossover components. Hence the reason I looked up more about the Canton sound, which seems to confirm that yes they do have this particular sound. And it just so happens to be the kind of sound I hate. Therefore I'm more confident in not needing to futz about with them, I'll just pass them on.

Never prioritize price over how they sound to you when choosing speakers. In other words, don't buy anything unless you're able to hear it first regardless of price, and spend as much as you comfortably can.

 

[bhairavi]

Never prioritize price over how they sound to you when choosing speakers. In other words, don't buy anything unless you're able to hear it first regardless of price, and spend as much as you comfortably can.

Unfortunately this is not true for me.

I can go audition speakers - but that does not mean I have had a meaningful listening experience. Going to someone's house to listen to the speakers on their system - even with music I know and love - and I've done it many times - only leads me to confirm that yes, the drivers are working and that there is no undue distortion. I would not be able to characterize them. When I went to buy the ADS L1590s, and they were my first ADS - I listened to them on some dude's Fisher tube system. They sounded okay. Sharp, trebly. I bought them because of reputation and price, and I brought them home halfheartedly. It was only after I hooked them up to my system that I was blown away.

Heck the same is true of most amps. I can listen but it doesn't mean I hear. I bought the Sansui AU-505, 888 and 717 in one go. I passed on the 999 because it sounded duller. But that was the extent of my discernment. I couldn't get a good feel for any of them until I brought them home.

I just pass them on if they're not to my liking. Part of the reason for looking for deals (aside from liking my money as much as the next guy) is to ensure I can sell them off without taking a significant loss. That just seems sound to me.

 

[bhairavi]

Perhaps I erred in calling them bright. My issue was that they bothered my tinnitus, as do many other speakers. The ribbon tweeters (mostly) alleviate that problem.

I really don't understand why some do, and some don't. I'm OK with my KEF 104/2's and Norman Lab Model 8's. Most Klipsch (and pretty much all metal dome tweeter) speakers will send my tinnitus into hyper drive.

I'm glad you're pleased with the Sierra's. The ribbons simply add a bit more detail and clarity. Although now, with my rapidly failing hearing, I doubt I could hear the difference between the two. Other than the tinnitus thing, of course.

I've got a pair of KEF 104/2s being restored in my garage right now.

Eventually my speaker collection is going to be a clone of yours. You may as well just list all your speakers now, so I can get on with it...

 

[tubelectron]

Some years ago, I bought a pair of TANGENT EVO E4, and find them very smooth and balanced sounding...

... Notably when connected to my BELL 2420 tube amp :

T

 

[Bill S]

Nope, definitely picking those up, and likely the superzeroes as well, just haven't got an opportunity to go down that way (about two hours' drive).

BTW I was surprised by how mellow the Sierras are - you had mentioned they might be bright but I don't find that at all! Not forward, not bright, and good bass. They just might be perfect... but I wonder what I'm missing without the ribbons

That's why I suggested Triangle Borea BR03. I bought mine from a friend who had Wharfdale Linton Anniversaries. He said it came down to the 2. Now mind you, the Wharfdale cost 3x as much and I didn't discern much of a difference except the Triangles were much smaller. Got them home iny room and they sound wonderful driven with a Marantz 2225. To each their own.

 

[rickb119]

I've got a pair of KEF 104/2s being restored in my garage right now.

Eventually my speaker collection is going to be a clone of yours. You may as well just list all your speakers now, so I can get on with it...

I've already listed everything. I did once have a pair of Totem Sttaf speakers (got in a package deal), which I was very impressed with. Were it not for the tinnitus thing, I'd have kept them. I even tried recapping them with Sonicaps (back when they were still semi-affordable). Didn't help.

I'm pretty much set/satisfied with what I have now. That is, unless a reasonably price pair of KEF 105's or 107's comes across my path.

When you get the 104/2's finished, be sure to post some pics here. https://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/kef-owners-thread.630884/

 

[sanford12]

Buddy I want speakers for cheap, not cheap speakers. But you're right, I am throwing cheap buys at the wall, so to speak. That's the point. Try a whole bunch of speakers without spending lots of money.

So far the two pairs of Energys are a hit, and the Sierras, which are not cheap in any way, are out of this world. By the way they are all under 15" and they beat the pants off both Cantons in every category. The Cantons certainly don't look cheaply made. I find it difficult to believe out of all the small speakers I've bought, now and in the past year, these are the only ones so affected by crossover components. Hence the reason I looked up more about the Canton sound, which seems to confirm that yes they do have this particular sound. And it just so happens to be the kind of sound I hate. Therefore I'm more confident in not needing to futz about with them, I'll just pass them on.

Girl I understand. I wouldn't buy a pair of JBL's or KEF's, not my cup of tea. I was lucky enough to first hear my Cantons with modern very powerful power amps far beyond my means. I knew what they can do. Came home with them hooked them to my Outlaw RR2160 and knew immediately even when pushing 165w into 4ohms it didn't have the power the Cantons needed. Mating them with the Parasound got me where I needed to be.

 

[MX117.MC7150]

Hate recommend anything made in China, but the Klipsch RM-600 II are a very accomplished speaker for the $$.

 

[bhairavi]

Coming back to this thread to say that I still haven't gotten the NHT speakers, BUT I set up a tiny 1990s Sansui amp with the pair of Energy RC Minis and it sounds fantastic! Unfortunately the amp does not have a second pair of speaker posts, because I had the bright idea of using the Energy RC-10s as "sub"woofers - removing the jumpers and then just hooking up the woofer as a second pair of speakers. I imagine it would work very well in place of an on-demand subwoofer for the RC Minis in an office space where I gotta be careful about bass extension.

 

[bhairavi]

Returning again: I had put both sets of Cantons on FBM - and didn't get a bite in a couple of weeks. Got curious and opened them up, tested all the electrolytics - wildly out of spec. All around 50-60% above rated capacitance. I got my partsexpress order yesterday and updated the crossovers. I must admit the GL260 improved significantly on both ends - lows are better and highs are way less harsh.

Today I did the Karat 20s, which were much harsher to start with. I changed the single electrolytic cap - the poly cap tested good. I think it smoothed things out a bit - I left them running when I went back to work after lunch. I got a guy who responded to my FBM ad for my (smaller) ADS L400s and I had him come by in the afternoon. I only had a few brief minutes with refreshed Cantons before he came by... and he wanted to check out the Cantons as well. Turns out he has Karat 300s. Anyway after a lot of A/Bing and thinkin and pondering he put in a reasonable offer on both the Karats and the ADS, and walked out with them. Now I'm listening to the GL260s, which I think are definitely the smoother of the Cantons, and hey, they sound pretty good.

So, I was wrong and these are pretty good. Not as smooth as ADS and definitely brighter, but not as harsh as I'd though.

 

[bhairavi]

The GL260s are strange - at baseline, there's not a lot of bass. But if you wind the tone controls, they respond effortlessly. With Loudness on AND the bass pinned all the way clockwise, there's tons of bass for the size!

 

[bhairavi]

Back again - I got an excellent deal on a pair of Fritz Grove towers - and a pretty good deal on a pair of slightly beat up Vienna Haydns for $250. They are just a smidge larger than the Energy RC-10s. I have these two pairs set up in the garage to A/B on a new-to-me HK430.

Initial impressions: the Haydns have a lot more going on in the midrange, in a good way. The Energys in comparison are much more scooped out. The Haydns also dig deeper, although they cannot woof out as much as the Energys. The treble is very good on the Haydns - and although they have pretty poor reviews on ASR - I've learned not to trust ASR. Clinic performance is not for me, and as I'm finding out in my explorations of amps, neither is some asymptotic approach to ultimate clarity. I don't care. At this point I'm done exploring amplification and more interested in how much speakers present/color the music. To me it seems like this is where the meat is!

 

[bhairavi]

Nearfield shootout with
Sierra 1v2/Vienna Haydn/Energy RC-10

 

[bhairavi]

Alright some observations -

These Viennas are very warm. Initially, voices almost sound like how they used to over landlines back when the lines weren't digitized and further compressed. It's this real close, round sound.

In close A/B/C comparison, because the Viennas are so different, this makes the RC10s sound a lot closer to the Sierras! Neither of these are very forward, but they sound sharper/thinner once you get used to the Viennas.

The 'apparent' bass is inverse of the cabinet size - the RC10s with the smallest cabinets woof out the most at a slightly higher frequency, and the Sierras, which are by far more capable, nevertheless sound less bassy because they dig way deeper and there's less to hear, more to feel. But the bass on the Viennas is very respectable, and more than enough - by comparison the Sierras sometimes cause a bit of an uncomfortable pressurized feeling, like what happens with overzealous noise reduction on headphones.

The Viennas excel in genres where the human voice or traditional/classical instruments are primary - jazz, classical, whether Western or Indian or Japanese, folk, whether African or subcontinental. Things sound a lot more intimate. It's all in the mids. In comparison the Sierras seem to have a bigger soundstage, are airier, but a little thinner. Interestingly, despite the higher-class competition, the RC10s continue to fare very well tonally - nice airy highs, bit of a dip in the mids, great mid-bass, and slightly warmer than the Sierras.

Overall it's hard to foresee which of these I'll be keeping. I certainly don't want to keep all of them, but the coloration of the Viennas is quite seductive. I could see getting rid of the Sierras despite their extreme competence - after all I still have the L1290s in the same room. I suppose I should try these with a higher wattage amp just to make sure I'm not missing anything - perhaps I can preamp the 555a into the Hafler DH220 to do them all justice.






I just finished applying restor-a-finish to the Fritz Grove speakers. These are two ways with a Chinese clone of dynaudio 6" woofers w 3" voice coils and morel soft-dome tweeters, the maker highlights that there are no caps in the signal path of the tweeter, although I'm not sure what are the ramifications. They are floorstanders, but I'm just going to keep posting about them in this thread. First off, they image extremely well. They have decent bass, although the loudness switch on the HK430 seemed to overwhelm them pretty quickly out in the garage. I'll be bringing these inside to set up in the same room. That way I can compare them to all of the above speakers as well as the 1290s.

 

[bhairavi]

Vienna Haydn update - 555a preamped into Hafler DH220.

I'm astounded how sweet this is - the female voice in the Cowboy Junkies' Trinity Sessions is close and lovely.. and the highhat is like hot sweet coca cola. These things are like tiny vintage KLHs!

 

[bhairavi]

I A/B'd the KLH 6s to the Haydns.

Friends, the Haydns are warmer than the KLHs. In nearfield, at least, when I turn up the Etta James, it is the Viennas that sound smoother, and less shouty.

I put the 6s back in the closet.

Next up - A/Bing an HK430 with the Sansui 555a, using the Viennas.

Seeing the dismal ASR reviews for the Viennas, I think I should probably never have dissuaded myself from buying the Wharfedale Dentons, another speaker with awful reviews from the objectivists.