Snell problems

[setup1]

It does. Thanks!

Are these products what you used to get your woofer frames squeaky clean? Because I have both kicking around

Yup, I used whatever was handy.

I see that you went with Simply Speakers foam

Your first attempt looks clean to me.

Thanks!

Aside from careful preparation, this generic replacement foam fitted so well that avoiding voice coil rub wasn't even much of a concern during installation. In the early days of Snell woofer re-foaming some of the foam replacements were too stiff and/or didn't have enough compliance. With this foam, I'm hearing pretty good bass response.

As mentioned in my blog, I listened to the driver bare naked and it didn't sound like any of my Altecs. But that's like comparing apples to oranges.

Over the weekend a good friend loaned me his 15 ohm Rogers LS3/5As - speakers I owned before I went DIY SE-DHT amps>Altecs - the JIII midrange isn't shamed by the BBC design.

Since there are no original foam surround replacements from Vifa, this will always be a contentious issue. Of course, after market vendors will always claim that their product is the best.

So far I like what I'm hearing from the JIIIs and that's all that matters!

 

[setup1]

Drivers are out and I peeked into the innards for the first time. I see that I only need short binding posts

What is going on with this wiring? Is this by design or just an odd bird?


Speaker 1 (#41371)

Speaker 2 (#41372)

To be continued

Consecutive serial numbers and different wiring, very unusual...

The blue/orange wiring look very similar to the black and red I found on my JIIIs. Everything was also soldered so the
gray/black Kimber Kable-style braid with spade connectors look suspicious to me...

Does your EIII have Vifa M21xxxxx woofers + Vifa D26xxxxx tweeters also?

 

[spark1]

What is the purpose of listening to the drivers outside of the cabinet?

As for surrounds...all I can say is that they make a difference. And I'm pretty sure that stiff/thick foams are still being sold.

Minimally, I would urge OP to find filled-edge surrounds, as the ones I've seen (many!) have always been more compliant than standard generics.

I timk you will find a fairly large consensus among the Snell community about the importance of high compliance surrounds in getting the best performance.

 

[Sooopa]

Consecutive serial numbers and different wiring, very unusual...

The blue/orange wiring look very similar to the black and red I found on my JIIIs. Everything was also soldered so the
gray/black Kimber Kable-style braid with spade connectors look suspicious to me...

Does your EIII have Vifa M21xxxxx woofers + Vifa D26xxxxx tweeters also?

VIFA M21WN-07 woofers
D26VG-05 front tweeters I'm going to assume the rear are the same

Rear tweeters in both speakers are wired with black & grey braided cables. One speaker front tweeter has blue & red cables but the rest of the internals are braided

 

[setup1]

VIFA M21WN-07 woofers
D26VG-05 front tweeters I'm going to assume the rear are the same

Rear tweeters in both speakers are wired with black & grey braided cables. One speaker front tweeter has blue & red cables but the rest of the internals are braided

Aren't the rear tweeters 3/4" dome? I never handled nor seen a Type E/II/III, just quoting what I read.

These speakers were essentially hand-made perhaps, we're seeing original stuff in there. I never had prior experience with Snells until the J-IIIs. Always interested to learn new things!

Thanks for the info!

 

[lukiedog]

I've done a ton of these woofers, but long ago. If what you need is a fillet filled surround, then contact myaudioaddiction.com for them, 8" I believe, same as for Boston Acoustics. Forget those places charging $40, these surrounds are costing them $1 each, if not less. Crooks, no need to encourage them.

 

[Patrick_W]

My advice, I’ve owned and still own Snell speakers.
They are amazing.
Get Audio Note surrounds. Worth the extra money IMHO.
Spend some time on the cabinet to make it look as good as possible .
Then be prepared to be very happy.

I agree!

Last year I refoamed a pair of Snell E II with the Audio Note surrounds, and I could not be happier. The Audio Note people were great to deal with and very helpful. Yes, all told with shipping it was close to $75 for the foams—more than what I would pay from eBay or a US speaker parts online retailer—but I have no regrets. These speakers are exceptional, wonderfully detailed, with balanced sound and surprising bass. I cleaned up the cabinets and they look just as wonderful as they sound.

You will enjoy these!

 

[GordonW]

Consecutive serial numbers and different wiring, very unusual...

The blue/orange wiring look very similar to the black and red I found on my JIIIs. Everything was also soldered so the
gray/black Kimber Kable-style braid with spade connectors look suspicious to me...

Does your EIII have Vifa M21xxxxx woofers + Vifa D26xxxxx tweeters also?

Yeah that "Kimber Kable" is probably someone's attempt to "upgrade" them.

I would put them back stock. Find some wire of the same gauge and type as the original. Snells do need changes in voicing, like that Kimber wire will likely do.

Regards,
Gordon.

 

[opnly bafld]

deleted

 

[Sooopa]

Yeah that "Kimber Kable" is probably someone's attempt to "upgrade" them.

I would put them back stock. Find some wire of the same gauge and type as the original. Snells do need changes in voicing, like that Kimber wire will likely do.

Regards,
Gordon.

What you are saying doesn't make sense. All of the cables in 1 speaker are braided while all but the woofer and the front tweeter are braided in the other. Why were the most easily accessible cables left unchanged?

 

[spark1]

I am no Snell expert, but have worked on several pairs of various models, and own a set of JIII. Mine, and several (but not all) of them had the same/similar braided wiring.

I do agree that with speakers of this quality, the first step should be to get them as close to original as possible. Highly compliant surrounds, electrolytics to replace electrolytics in the crossover (if you want to monkey with the crossover at all), no changes to wiring.

Only then should you think about modifying them. Otherwise, you can end up with something not as good as the great original design, and not even know it.

Just my $.02...which may well be worth even less than $.02.

 

[Uncle Fester]

I scored a pair of type E 111's a year ago that needed refoaming.

I got the replacement foams from Simply Speakers, as they were specifically for Snell type E111's.

They seem fine. If any other specifically required foams would have been better, I probably wouldn't notice the difference.

Well, the garage is warming up, and I've got my saws cleaned and adjusted for the season, time to make a couple of custom speaker stands.

 

[setup1]

What is the purpose of listening to the drivers outside of the cabinet?

I was replying to the OP in this context and other Altec experiments since they were referenced in my JIII project. IME, it has helped me a lot especially in getting an idea of midrange performance. But of course, YMMV!

FWIW, here's the RTA (Onyx app for iPhone) of my JIII re-foamed using the Simply Speakers kit.

 

[Johnny_Law]

Yeah that "Kimber Kable" is probably someone's attempt to "upgrade" them.

I would put them back stock. Find some wire of the same gauge and type as the original. Snells do need changes in voicing, like that Kimber wire will likely do.

Regards,
Gordon.

I've seen the same type of cable in original Snell E/III before, for what it's worth.

 

[GordonW]

Interesting. For all the Snells I've seen- I've always seen normal, single-run wire in them. Usually fairly heavy gauge (like 14 or 12g), but nothing else.

Maybe all the ones I've seen have been earlier ones? Series 1 or 2? That's quite possible.

Regards,
Gordon.

 

[trinhsman]

What you are saying doesn't make sense. All of the cables in 1 speaker are braided while all but the woofer and the front tweeter are braided in the other. Why were the most easily accessible cables left unchanged?

I don’t know Gordon’s thinking on this, but I know Gordon. Trust what he says. He knows his speakers. He rebuilt my Snell E II crossovers. He also built me a set of tube mono blocks. Trust Gordon.

 

[spark1]

I don’t know Gordon’s thinking on this, but I know Gordon. Trust what he says. He knows his speakers. He rebuilt my Snell E II crossovers. He also built me a set of tube mono blocks. Trust Gordon.

Or trust Snell? Look online at pics of Snell internal wiring...you will see that quite a few models used the braided wiring.

 

[Sooopa]

I don’t know Gordon’s thinking on this, but I know Gordon. Trust what he says. He knows his speakers. He rebuilt my Snell E II crossovers. He also built me a set of tube mono blocks. Trust Gordon.

All due respect to Gordon but I do possess a touch of common sense. And common sense tells me that no one is going to change hard to reach cabling but leave the easiest to reach cable alone. So if all of the wiring in 1 speaker is braided and all wiring except for 4 of the most accessible ones are braided, then either someone replaced the 4 braided wires with straight wire OR this speaker was assembled late one Friday evening

Or trust Snell? Look online at pics of Snell internal wiring...you will see that quite a few models used the braided wiring.

 

[GordonW]

Or trust Snell? Look online at pics of Snell internal wiring...you will see that quite a few models used the braided wiring.

I will say this- I am pretty sure that no speaker that Peter Snell himself worked on, had braided wiring.

What happened after he died- that's another story, apparently.

Also- as a warning to others- one of the ONLY speaker cables I have EVER cause outright amplifier instability- is Kimber. I have seen amplifiers brought to their knees by these cables. Amps that SHOULD be putting out in excess of 100w/ch, clipping with signals of less than 10 watts. Due to oscillation.

Fortunately, most amps are protected well enough that this isn't an outright issue- but, especially with the penchant of members of this board to use vintage amps- designed before more rigorous understanding of the requirements of design for amplifier stability existed- this can be more of a problem for members here, than might be experienced elsewhere...

Regards,
Gordon.

 

[spark1]

I will say this- I am pretty sure that no speaker that Peter Snell himself worked on, had braided wiring.

What happened after he died- that's another story, apparently.

Also- as a warning to others- one of the ONLY speaker cables I have EVER cause outright amplifier instability- is Kimber. I have seen amplifiers brought to their knees by these cables. Amps that SHOULD be putting out in excess of 100w/ch, clipping with signals of less than 10 watts. Due to oscillation.

Fortunately, most amps are protected well enough that this isn't an outright issue- but, especially with the penchant of members of this board to use vintage amps- designed before more rigorous understanding of the requirements of design for amplifier stability existed- this can be more of a problem for members here, than might be experienced elsewhere...

Regards,
Gordon.

There are pics of series II and III crossovers online with the braided wiring...which I don't think is necessarily the same as Kimbercable. The Kimber cable I've seen seems more interwoven.

And I agree about Kimber cable changing tonal character. Someone gave me a set years ago...I finally tried it and it made the speakers I used it with (Snell, Thiel, Vandersteen) overly bright. I don't want cables I can hear, so I quit using it.

As for the original series, the few pics I found had "normal" wiring...so I think you may be right in your conjecture that the braided wire was a Voecks thing.

But certainly you're not suggesting that Snell speakers after the first series are more likely than other brands to push vintage amps into oscillation?