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Snell Type C
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CKDC
Super Member
I own a set of these. DO NOT use anything other than what is designed for them. It will cost you, but it is worth it. Atomic HiFi in MA has the correct tweeters. I had woofers in mine that were not quite doing what they should so I replaced them with the correct ones. Made all the difference in the world. These are some amazing speakers and were designed by Peter Snell himself, before he passed away. IMHO, they need original drivers to sound their best.
I did checked Atomic HiFi. I'm not dropping $200 to hear if these speakers work. There could be other problems . I will be trying the Seas Prestige 19TFF1 . The DCR is close to the original and its "almost" a drop in replacement dimensions wise . The build is similar and its replacement for a Vifa D19TDO5-8 which Snell could have used (someone made the drivers for them). These speakers are at lease 34 years old and have electrolytic caps in the x-over so specs have changed and all the Snell specs are not available to the public so what can an AKer to do . I replaced the tweeters in my CV as the originals would "shrill" on some vocals . I researched it and there were other similar complaints . One probable cause was the ferric fluid has dried up. They sound fine now I'll let know how these C type sound.....
IMHO if you want the best on these speakers you need original woofers. Those woofers are mass loaded to the speaker. Any other drop in will not be. Also, regarding the age and caps, yes they are old and the crossovers should be rebuilt. I had mine done by AK member Baco99. Also, AK member Gordonw rebuilds crossovers and did a set for my E II’s. Gordon is a purist and will duplicate the crossovers to the exact originals. Baco is more adventurous, but he owns a speaker company and is a crossover master. I trust them both. You can do what you like with your C’s, but they will sound the best if brought back to what the designer did. Just my 2 cents. Don’t look at this as an investment, but more of a love for the speaker. I have over 900 dollars in my Type C’s with the woofer replacement and crossover rebuild. I know I will never get my money back, but it’s fun to see the look on friends faces when they hear them and are told they are 35 years old.
These are playing now .I did replace the replace the tweeters with Seas Prestige 19TFF1. The speakers have a nice big sound ,the setup is far from ideal . I am looking to replace just the electrolytic caps. I was wondering if anyone has a list of them. I did look inside one cab , there are 4uf, 8uf,16uf @50V .There are some I can't see the value and I can't get arcuate count on each value.
Murphy's oil soap washes off what stain is on them , but it didn't look right anyway . Any tips or tricks ?
Murphy's oil soap washes off what stain is on them , but it didn't look right anyway . Any tips or tricks ?
CKDC
Super Member
Keep in mind, each driver in Snell speakers was individually adjusted. The caps in another speaker might be close but not the same as what you have.
You might or might not hear the difference.
Ideally, you would want to test the caps that are in your speakers and see if they are within spec or not. Then go changing as needed.
I had Baco99 redo my crossovers. He did a more modern style of crossover than the original. He goes through the original, with the numbers and things, then makes a new crossover. I’m happy with his work, but it is not cheap. Also, AK member Gordonw can do these. His approach is to duplicate the original, exactly. He even bundles the caps like Snell did. I had a set of E II’s done by Gordon. They came out wonderful. Now if given a choice, I think I would opt for the original method. But either way worked. Just my 2 cents.
I would have to remove them to test them and 35 year old electrolytic caps are done . I will have clip out the E-caps from the pile and order new .
I worked at Bose making the 901's and the parts by lot numbers are tested before production . As long as the designer specs are in range , its off to production. You would never get them out the door if you tested and tweaked each speaker in every cab. I think its a myth
I worked at Bose making the 901's and the parts by lot numbers are tested before production . As long as the designer specs are in range , its off to production. You would never get them out the door if you tested and tweaked each speaker in every cab. I think its a myth
NAD80
Super Member
https://www.audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/baco99-is-the-man.833719/#post-11871261 Found this on the Type C. https://www.audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/some-serious-crossovers.499449/#post-6481379 Wonder how someone could just send Snell's to the dump is beyond me, Calman46. Love the way Snells sound.
Hi all! Chiming in here since I heard my name called. 
These are my opinions, based on a combination of data that I have collected, some real measurements, some seat-of-the-pants measurements, and intense listening.
First off, my next door neighbor is friends with one of the former Snell VPs who worked directly alongside Peter Snell. The legend of him listening to every speaker, and making minor tweaks, is largely true, and especially true for the large models. The smaller bookshelf models he'd review the measurements and conduct listening tests in "small batches". But the big ticket sales all had individual listing tests conducted, with tweaks made to individual crossover components before the speakers were sent for final assembly and inspection and packaging. Not to start a war here, but Snell was not Bose (that being said, Bose is still in business and Snell is not).
Second, the original Snell C (with the front port) used the Vifa D25TG-05-06 tweeter in front and Vifa D19TD05-08 in back. The D25 has a 25mm diaphragm, a lower Fs, and a different impedance than the D19. The Snell CI (the one without the port in front) switched to the Vifa D19TD05-08 in the front and back. Replacing the D25 with the D19 is not a drop-in replacement for your model C. You would need to make some considerable changes to the crossover to get the full impact of what the speakers are capable of. If you send me a direct message I may be able to help you with your D25s, or help you source a more appropriate modern replacement.
Third, I agree with you, your electrolytic caps are shot. It's time to replace them. As Ernie very eloquently mentioned, there are two schools of thought on how to properly recap Snell crossovers. I personally do not like electrolytic caps in crossovers, especially for the upper frequency drivers, and especially on speakers that have value. In understand and respect what Peter Snell did in carefully selecting and replacing components based on his ear and his ear alone. I have seen Snell pairs with sequential serial numbers with almost completely different crossover components inside each one. I respect that. My pragmatic opinion differs that those measures are necessary today. Here's why:
a) The entire speaker system has aged 30-40 years. The drivers, if you are lucky, will measure within 20-25% of each other, 3x-5x the tolerances typically used when these speakers were new. (Snell did match drivers within 5% prior to assembly).
b) Electrolytic caps are inherently flawed. The measured ESRs are high, and from what I have measured of e-lytic caps, the ESR behaves erratically across the frequency spectrum. Just like how most speaker builders don't like wildly varied impedance curves, I don't like wildly varied ESRs. In general, even a modestly priced poly-film cap will have a much smoother ESR, and therefore smoother and more predictable overall filtering effectiveness, than an e-lytic cap.
So, for my money, instead of spending considerable time and effort to match bundled cap values to Snell's originals, I prefer to find his preferred crossover point and get poly-film components that will do the job consistently. Not saying the other way is wrong, just a different school of thought.
Finally, Snell used bundles of these very clunky, high inductance, wire wound adjustable ceramic resistors inside their speakers. I think there are 3 of them inside a Snell C. They are 5 ohm resistors with a slide and screw that locks the resistance into a predetermined setting landing somewhere between 2 and 3 ohms. I prefer to replace these with non-inductive, and/or MOX resistors. Using the MOX resistors cleans up the signal considerably.
The Snell C series are well worth a considerable investment to get them right.
These are my opinions, based on a combination of data that I have collected, some real measurements, some seat-of-the-pants measurements, and intense listening.
First off, my next door neighbor is friends with one of the former Snell VPs who worked directly alongside Peter Snell. The legend of him listening to every speaker, and making minor tweaks, is largely true, and especially true for the large models. The smaller bookshelf models he'd review the measurements and conduct listening tests in "small batches". But the big ticket sales all had individual listing tests conducted, with tweaks made to individual crossover components before the speakers were sent for final assembly and inspection and packaging. Not to start a war here, but Snell was not Bose (that being said, Bose is still in business and Snell is not).
Second, the original Snell C (with the front port) used the Vifa D25TG-05-06 tweeter in front and Vifa D19TD05-08 in back. The D25 has a 25mm diaphragm, a lower Fs, and a different impedance than the D19. The Snell CI (the one without the port in front) switched to the Vifa D19TD05-08 in the front and back. Replacing the D25 with the D19 is not a drop-in replacement for your model C. You would need to make some considerable changes to the crossover to get the full impact of what the speakers are capable of. If you send me a direct message I may be able to help you with your D25s, or help you source a more appropriate modern replacement.
Third, I agree with you, your electrolytic caps are shot. It's time to replace them. As Ernie very eloquently mentioned, there are two schools of thought on how to properly recap Snell crossovers. I personally do not like electrolytic caps in crossovers, especially for the upper frequency drivers, and especially on speakers that have value. In understand and respect what Peter Snell did in carefully selecting and replacing components based on his ear and his ear alone. I have seen Snell pairs with sequential serial numbers with almost completely different crossover components inside each one. I respect that. My pragmatic opinion differs that those measures are necessary today. Here's why:
a) The entire speaker system has aged 30-40 years. The drivers, if you are lucky, will measure within 20-25% of each other, 3x-5x the tolerances typically used when these speakers were new. (Snell did match drivers within 5% prior to assembly).
b) Electrolytic caps are inherently flawed. The measured ESRs are high, and from what I have measured of e-lytic caps, the ESR behaves erratically across the frequency spectrum. Just like how most speaker builders don't like wildly varied impedance curves, I don't like wildly varied ESRs. In general, even a modestly priced poly-film cap will have a much smoother ESR, and therefore smoother and more predictable overall filtering effectiveness, than an e-lytic cap.
So, for my money, instead of spending considerable time and effort to match bundled cap values to Snell's originals, I prefer to find his preferred crossover point and get poly-film components that will do the job consistently. Not saying the other way is wrong, just a different school of thought.
Finally, Snell used bundles of these very clunky, high inductance, wire wound adjustable ceramic resistors inside their speakers. I think there are 3 of them inside a Snell C. They are 5 ohm resistors with a slide and screw that locks the resistance into a predetermined setting landing somewhere between 2 and 3 ohms. I prefer to replace these with non-inductive, and/or MOX resistors. Using the MOX resistors cleans up the signal considerably.
The Snell C series are well worth a considerable investment to get them right.
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RGA
Super Member
A little off topic but since there are some Type C fans here - Peter Qvortrup of Audio Note was good friends with Peter Snell and has been remaking improving Snell speakers for over 3 decades.
I noticed that Audio Note is working on an Audio Note Type C speaker. It may never come out as it is a prototype and they are working on some other speaker designs as well but regardless whether it makes it - it is well respected.
Here is one of Qvortrup's offices where they do some prototype auditions.
I would love to see these come back and with all those nice Russian Birch Finishes.
They bough the rights to the Oaktron tweeter so it "seems" they might make production one day. I think Peter Snell is massively underrated because when they talk about great designers he never seems to get mentioned - but in Asia the Audio Note K/Lx won budget speaker of the year in 2010 and a few years later the AN E won product of the year in Asia. But remember these are 40+ (FORTY+) year old speaker designs and still winning best speaker awards against the new state of the art. AND the Audio Note prices are considerably higher so again - even against ultra new and stiff competition. You really can't say enough about Peter Snell. Had he had today's parts quality - wow.
And yes AN has changed them - but the platform is still the Snell platform and PQ has said that if Peter Snell were alive he would be making even better speakers today. I was surprised how young Snell was when he died. I have had 2 AN/E speakers, 1 AN/J speaker, on my second set of AN/K speakers. If I ever saw any Snells I'd buy them for my second room.
I really want them to remake that Type A - but I suspect the production cost would be too high for a smaller company like Audio Note - and it's a tough "look" to sell to modern buyers. That means low sales and a massively high price to the consumer because they have no economy of scale. Even the Type C could eat into Type E sales which could then make them both more expensive. What is needed is the big makers to get on board but they're selling fashion products that happen to make some noise.
I noticed that Audio Note is working on an Audio Note Type C speaker. It may never come out as it is a prototype and they are working on some other speaker designs as well but regardless whether it makes it - it is well respected.
Here is one of Qvortrup's offices where they do some prototype auditions.
I would love to see these come back and with all those nice Russian Birch Finishes.
They bough the rights to the Oaktron tweeter so it "seems" they might make production one day. I think Peter Snell is massively underrated because when they talk about great designers he never seems to get mentioned - but in Asia the Audio Note K/Lx won budget speaker of the year in 2010 and a few years later the AN E won product of the year in Asia. But remember these are 40+ (FORTY+) year old speaker designs and still winning best speaker awards against the new state of the art. AND the Audio Note prices are considerably higher so again - even against ultra new and stiff competition. You really can't say enough about Peter Snell. Had he had today's parts quality - wow.
And yes AN has changed them - but the platform is still the Snell platform and PQ has said that if Peter Snell were alive he would be making even better speakers today. I was surprised how young Snell was when he died. I have had 2 AN/E speakers, 1 AN/J speaker, on my second set of AN/K speakers. If I ever saw any Snells I'd buy them for my second room.
I really want them to remake that Type A - but I suspect the production cost would be too high for a smaller company like Audio Note - and it's a tough "look" to sell to modern buyers. That means low sales and a massively high price to the consumer because they have no economy of scale. Even the Type C could eat into Type E sales which could then make them both more expensive. What is needed is the big makers to get on board but they're selling fashion products that happen to make some noise.
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