RobRoy
It's just stuff - but fun
I'll bet your car has a manual transmission too.
So much for my "Audiophile" pretensions
- Thread starter LazySounds
- Start date
RobRoy
It's just stuff - but fun
None. Polarity is relative between the two speakers. It's kinda like a double negative.
That is, unless you have a sub. Even then, as most people use it, it still doesn't matter.
old skool
Member
Don't be so sure. What may have happened is you just had an "emperor has no clothes" moment.
Over the years I've had quite a few.
L-M-A-O :thmbsp: I'm not sure I've ever heard a Herer reference before. Classic.
In regard to the cartridge, I'm ashamed of what I listen to (and often enjoy)... Bone stock Numark TT1550
But truthfully, I mostly listen to that particular setup for just the "songs", as mentioned before; not high quality by any means. I just haven't found the "one for me" turntable.Kudos to you sir (OP) for being kind enough to share such a mishap though! Again, as stated before, I'm sure we have all had those moments
Pio1980
AK Member
It dulls impact and realism on most decently recorded content, particularly noticeable on percussion and male voices. Acoustic polarity inversion almost never occurs in nature and sounds odd and unnatural.
The 'ideal' system is the tin-can telephone model where an acoustic 'push' pulse into the mic results in an acoustic 'push' pulse from the speaker or headphones, regardless of the intervening processing or number of stages.
Pio1980
AK Member
My strain gauge cart/Pioneer PL-L1000 set-up has an assortment of four different stylus profiles available, I generally prefer the highest resolution "Quadratip" profile but the bottom-end spherical tips are perfectly enjoyable if lacking the detailing of the more sophisticated tips.
Rotoplooker
Well-Known Member
I've never heard that before. I thought you were either in phase or out of phase..
RobRoy
It's just stuff - but fun
I can sort of see where he is going. If you have a "bass" tone that produces a single cycle and stops - that is, the woofer pushes out, then sucks in, and then returns to neutral - if both speakers are reversed in polarity, they will be in phase, but the speakers will suck in and then push out instead. I don't know how the differences would be perceived by the ear though. That is, I have no opinion on it.
Just thinking out loud, if the aforementioned sound were actually a tone, rather than a single excursion, other than with the initial attack and end, the tone would be the tone.
Rotoplooker
Well-Known Member
I see what you're saying RobRoy, but the driver should be pushing out once back in phase, even if your connections are double negative, no? In other words, out of phase, the driver sucks in, and in-phase the driver pushes out, regardless. :scratch2: Sorry to belabor the point, but I always just took this for granted. Then again, I always just make sure they're in phase to start with..
RobRoy
It's just stuff - but fun
Yeah. Phase is a big deal to me and out of phase systems is something I seem to be able to hear pretty well. I can't tell you how many times, when I was younger, I'd go into a mid-fi stereo store and, without even slowing down, walk up to one of the currently playing speakers and reverse the polarity on one of them. Sometimes I got dirty looks.
I'm older now. I don't bother.
RobRoy
It's just stuff - but fun
Belabor away. It's highly unlikely I'll find myself in a position to test it, so it's kinda like arguing whether or not there is life on some of those newly discovered planets a lot of light years away - we'll never know in our lifetime unless they drop by for a visit.
Rotoplooker
Well-Known Member
Heh-heh, It's nice to know other people were out there making the world safe for proper playback, one system at a time!
hifitommy
Super Member
"What is the audible effect of both speakers polarity being reversed? What is the audible effect of both speakers polarity being reversed? "
for me, its not distinct nor immediately noticeable. i once was listening to an adcom cdp that had remotely switchable 'absolute phase' (the term for that condition) and when i tried it, i could hear that one way was better than the other. exactly how or why i cant pinpoint.
clark johnsen wrote a book called 'the wood effect' dealing with that phenomenon.
i know that in phase means that the first positive wave pushes at you first as > rather than <. on an oscilloscope that is ^ rather than v.
so, if out of phase, its as if the kick drum skin were pulled away from you (rarefaction) instead of propelled toward you (compression).
that HAS to have some audible effect.
for me, its not distinct nor immediately noticeable. i once was listening to an adcom cdp that had remotely switchable 'absolute phase' (the term for that condition) and when i tried it, i could hear that one way was better than the other. exactly how or why i cant pinpoint.
clark johnsen wrote a book called 'the wood effect' dealing with that phenomenon.
i know that in phase means that the first positive wave pushes at you first as > rather than <. on an oscilloscope that is ^ rather than v.
so, if out of phase, its as if the kick drum skin were pulled away from you (rarefaction) instead of propelled toward you (compression).
that HAS to have some audible effect.
RobRoy
It's just stuff - but fun
I guess I'll be the one (this time) to point out that whether or not absolute polarity is even potentially audible, it's completely random whether or not recordings are released in the same polarity as the original sounds, and approximately zero engineers worry about whether all of their tracks are in the same absolute polarity or not when mixing down. So, if you can hear it, good luck finding records.
Maybe I missed something along the way and I'm looking to find the point attempting to be made here. I have a CD for checking balance, polarity/phase etc, when speakers were out of phase the sound was diminished/dulled and wouldn't of been my preference. Having listened to a number of cartridges it's more than obvious when I'v left the middle ground and gone to one extreme or the other, high end or low end. Audiophile can be used pretty loosly for whatever purposes one wants to use the term, there's even an "audiophile" Crosley turntable, try working around that one.
I can definetly hear when speakers are out of phase. Vocals do not image in the center as they should. The bass is not as pronounced either. I have read on other forums and people will say that it is hard to tell when a subwoofer is out of phase. I can hear this also. If you want to hear some out of phase content listen to In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida by Iron Butterfly. I listened to an interview by them several years ago and they said the drum solo was recorded out of phase on purpose. I thought to myself, that is why that part of the song sounds so different.
If you have audyssey room correction software, it will tell you if your speakers are wired out of phase. I have had it tell me this and it is really accurate at detecting if phase is reversed.
If you have audyssey room correction software, it will tell you if your speakers are wired out of phase. I have had it tell me this and it is really accurate at detecting if phase is reversed.
RobRoy
It's just stuff - but fun
All I do is switch to Mono and stick my head in the middle. If the sound source is hard to pinpoint (it should be coming from dead center), the speakers are out of phase with each other. I reverse the wiring on one and the problem is fixed.
That said, usually it's pretty obvious without doing that. One thing it also does is drastically reduce bass. And the closer the speakers are to each other, the more pronounced it is. The woofers are literally cancelling each other out. I used to demonstrate phase problems by putting two speakers right next to each other and then reverse the phase on one. I'd then turn the balance knob to center and turn up the volume a bit. Then I'd turn the balance to one side or the other and people would here a marked increase in bass. A quick explanation, and they too were ready to ensure the speakers on their home system were in phase with each other.
RobRoy
It's just stuff - but fun
I've read that some "audiophiles" will wire their cartridge out of phase and then wire the speakers out of phase, giving the literal equivalent of the double negative. The goal had something to do with improving the performance of the two sides of the stereo amplifier when they were working in "opposite" directions from each other.
I don't know what they did when they listened to tapes.
I've read that some "audiophiles" will wire their cartridge out of phase and then wire the speakers out of phase, giving the literal equivalent of the double negative. The goal had something to do with improving the performance of the two sides of the stereo amplifier when they were working in "opposite" directions from each other.
I don't know what they did when they listened to tapes.
Yamaha had the ability to do that with some of their preamps, so it wasn't just 'audiophiles' that thought there could be a benefit. I never bothered, but I've wired my speakers backwards (both the same, just negative to positive) to make up for a preamp/amp having different pin standards on the balanced cables.