• The move to the new server is done. There are some software and database maintenance updates in process. This has us passing the hat around to help out. We appreciate any donations. Seriously, even a dollar helps. The payment page may be found here - https://www.audiokarma.org/support.html

Some interesting info on vintage PIO codes

diamondsouled

Recycle belly button lint!
Thought some folks would find the following useful:


Ever wonder what those numbers are on vintage capacitors? This article will cover most aspects of vintage Paper in Oil capacitors codes so they can be easily identified. These type of capacitors are quite popular among the audio DIY enthusiast for it's unique sound quality and reliability. Love them or hate them the old paper in oil capacitors were built to last. Rarely do you find any that exhibit current leakage these caps are components to be reckoned with. Today's oil capacitors run the average audio dork like me $30+ each. Hence the popularity of these vintage caps is steadily growing when the average Audio dork can pick up a pair for under $10 on eBay. Unfortunately as the popularity grows the global supply of these caps that have been out of production since the early 80's gets depleted. Anyways, lets move on my point. First of all I don't feel like writing an article for the rest of the night so I'm just going to cover the most commonly found and used types. Information on these types of capacitors is almost impossible to find on the web so this information is from my own personal research and experiments such as deconstructing every type I have seen. If anyone spots any errors please correct me.

Lets start with the best way to identifying a paper in oil capacitor. That would be from the CP or CPO code. Usually followed a number, a letter and then another number ex. CPO5A1. All of which describe the dielectric, construction and type of paper in oil. CP or CPO can be remembered as Capacitor Paper or Capacitor Paper Oil. You can be assured that a capacitor is a paper in oil type if it has a CPO### code on it. So here are a few codes and definitions...

CPO4 and CPO5 - These types have an inserted tab construction making them the smaller, compact in size paper in oils. These types are hermetically sealed glass to metal terminals. CPO4 types have a plain metal casing where CPO5 types have an insulating sleeve. The insulating sleeve can be a clear tape, plastic or colored rubber. These types meet or exceed MIL-C-25C requirements -55° C to +125° C and can have a tolerance form 10% to 20%. CPO5 types are a little more desirable as it minimizes the chance of a short. If not careful one can cause some problems if somehow something comes in contact with the CPO4 casing completing a connection with something else.

CPO8 and CPO9 - These types have an extended foil or non inductive section construction. Also hermetically sealed glass to metal terminals. CPO8 has a plain metal casing where CPO9 has an insulated sleeve. These types meet or exceed MIL-C-25C requirements -55° C to +125° C and can have a tolerance from 10% to 20%.

Floating Case and Case Grounded:
The 5th character in the CPO codes indicates whether or not it is case grounded or insulated / floating. This is represented by an A or B. Type A means that the terminal leads are insulated or floating from the metal casing. Type B means case grounded. In type B's this is easy to see because one of the terminal leads are soldered directly to the outside of the casing. Only one end of the capacitor will have a glass end seal. Examples would be CPO4B1 which would indicate it's an inserted tab constructed capacitor, case grounded. This type of construction makes this cap much smaller size. For example a .1uf / 100v cap will be roughly the same size as a .1uf / 600v cap. One must be extra careful when dealing with B type capacitors! With what might be some much needed real estate in your gear could come at a price if you do not give full attention to detail. Very easily you can you ruin sensitive components or even electrocute yourself. I would suggest putting some type of sleeving on CPOP4 and CPO8, A and B type capacitors. maybe some tape or shrink wrap tubing.

Probably the most popular paper in oil of all are Sprague's Vitamin Q capacitors. Sprague along with all of those other infamous capacitor mfg's like Astron, Gudeman, West-Cap, C-D, Good-All, Micamold among others used there own series identification codes along with the standard CPO codes. I will not get into all of them because like I said I don't want to be typing all night. But I will throw out a few tips for identifying some of them starting with everyone's favorite the Vitamin Q.

Sprague Vitamin Q capacitors had many different series / types
Vitamin Q types exceed performance requirements of MIL-C25A

Type 91P - These types have an inserted tab construction making them the smaller. Hermetically sealed glass to metal and an 85° C operating temp.
Type 96P - Equivalent to CPO4 & CPO5 types. Also inserted tab construction, hermetic sealed but with a 125° C operating temp.
Type 191P - These have an extended foil construction, hermetic sealed with a 85° C operating temp.
Type 196P - Equivalent to CPO8 & CPO9 types. Also extended foil construction, hermetic sealed but with a 125° C operating temp.

Vitamin Q capacitors usually have an 11 digit code. The first 3-4 digits indicating series construction. The following 3 digits indicate capacitance. Followed by a digit indicating tolerance, which is represented by a 9 = 10% or a 0 = 20%. The following digit or 8th character indicates voltage x 100. And followed by 2 characters indicating terminal and vibration grade which I won't get into.
ex. 191P47293S4 = Vitamin Q .0047uf / 300v 10%...

Ok I covered the most popular and abundant types for the most part. To end this article I'm going to name off a few codes or tips to look for on these vintage caps so you can confirm that are indeed paper in oil capacitors and not just some polyester film cap in a metal casing. hope this helps some people out or is at least is some what good knowledge to have. Like I said I didn't cover everything so if you have questions feel free to contact me through my eBay store _ _ _ _ _ _.

Vitamin Q's - SR196P, 181P, 86P, P68, CR, CPV
Cornell-Dubilier - TWU, TWS
Astron - TQF, TQS
Pyramid - EPGIXV
Good-All, Micamold, Gen. Instr. - 354A, 627G, 613G
West-Cap - 815, FSN

Other Standard Paper in Oil codes that represent type of casing such as rectangular metal cans, bathtub, threaded end with nut, chassis mountable and o-tab. These are just the initial digits and will be followed by other digits indicating specs. -
CP53, CP61 to CP72, CP10, CP11, CP12, CP28, CR, BP
A good rule of thumb for these types is to remember that an A or B after the initial 2 to 4 digits indicates case floating or case grounded. Like talked about above. ex. CP11B3 = Paper in Oil with threaded end and nut, case grounded. CP11A would be a floating case .

---------

Cheers

Lar
 
Register to hide this ad
Nice post there - lots of good information. Now I know a good deal more about what I'm looking at when I'm wandering around Mendelson's electronics graveyard in Dayton looking through all their old NOS caps.
 
Dude! Thank you very very much for posting that.:thmbsp:

Howdy Dave and Jay,

Your most welcome.

Nice to know a bit more about the coding on this type of cap. There are Sprague hermetically sealed PIO caps with Vitamin Q oil that only have the mil/spec CPO codes on them but aren't marked as being Vitamin Qs.

Going to be receiving a 60's Sprague catalog soon and will post the info from it on Vitamin Qs as well.

Cheers

Lar
 
Not trying to hijack the thread, but since it's about vintage capacitors I hope it is okay. This capacitor is in a 1969 Pioneer Turntable.

This old table doesn't have a circuit board, it only has one capacitor in it. I'm thinking it needs to be changed since it is 40 years old. I'm also having issues with the motor starting up. I'm not much of an electronics wizard, in fact, I know very little. This old capacitor has these markings on it I have a polyfilm with the same values, but don't know if this old cap is polar or not. So, the CP designates it as an oil cap? If so does it really need to be changed? Any feedback is greatly appreciated.

CP-C
0.047 uF (M)
1000 WV
 
This cap has no affect on the motor - it's probably to suppress arcing at the power switch. And if it's one of the gray-jacketed oil caps that I've seen in other Japanese equipment, it's leaky and should be replaced.

As for the motor, you probably need to flush out the 40-year old grease and get some new lube in there...
 
This cap has no affect on the motor - it's probably to suppress arcing at the power switch. And if it's one of the gray-jacketed oil caps that I've seen in other Japanese equipment, it's leaky and should be replaced.

As for the motor, you probably need to flush out the 40-year old grease and get some new lube in there...


Thanks Tom. I have already disolved the old oil in the bearings with 99% alcohol and relubed with Singer Sewing machine oil. THe cap is Gray-jacketed. Would it be safe to replace with the poly cap I have on hand. I tried to attach a picture of the cap but it doesn't seem to work or I don't know what I'm doing.
 
Wow

Thought some folks would find the following useful:


Ever wonder what those numbers are on vintage capacitors? This article will cover most aspects of vintage Paper in Oil capacitors codes so they can be easily identified. These type of capacitors are quite popular among the audio DIY enthusiast for it's unique sound quality and reliability. Love them or hate them the old paper in oil capacitors were built to last. Rarely do you find any that exhibit current leakage these caps are components to be reckoned with. Today's oil capacitors run the average audio dork like me $30+ each. Hence the popularity of these vintage caps is steadily growing when the average Audio dork can pick up a pair for under $10 on eBay. Unfortunately as the popularity grows the global supply of these caps that have been out of production since the early 80's gets depleted. Anyways, lets move on my point. First of all I don't feel like writing an article for the rest of the night so I'm just going to cover the most commonly found and used types. Information on these types of capacitors is almost impossible to find on the web so this information is from my own personal research and experiments such as deconstructing every type I have seen. If anyone spots any errors please correct me.

Lets start with the best way to identifying a paper in oil capacitor. That would be from the CP or CPO code. Usually followed a number, a letter and then another number ex. CPO5A1. All of which describe the dielectric, construction and type of paper in oil. CP or CPO can be remembered as Capacitor Paper or Capacitor Paper Oil. You can be assured that a capacitor is a paper in oil type if it has a CPO### code on it. So here are a few codes and definitions...

CPO4 and CPO5 - These types have an inserted tab construction making them the smaller, compact in size paper in oils. These types are hermetically sealed glass to metal terminals. CPO4 types have a plain metal casing where CPO5 types have an insulating sleeve. The insulating sleeve can be a clear tape, plastic or colored rubber. These types meet or exceed MIL-C-25C requirements -55° C to +125° C and can have a tolerance form 10% to 20%. CPO5 types are a little more desirable as it minimizes the chance of a short. If not careful one can cause some problems if somehow something comes in contact with the CPO4 casing completing a connection with something else.

CPO8 and CPO9 - These types have an extended foil or non inductive section construction. Also hermetically sealed glass to metal terminals. CPO8 has a plain metal casing where CPO9 has an insulated sleeve. These types meet or exceed MIL-C-25C requirements -55° C to +125° C and can have a tolerance from 10% to 20%.

Floating Case and Case Grounded:
The 5th character in the CPO codes indicates whether or not it is case grounded or insulated / floating. This is represented by an A or B. Type A means that the terminal leads are insulated or floating from the metal casing. Type B means case grounded. In type B's this is easy to see because one of the terminal leads are soldered directly to the outside of the casing. Only one end of the capacitor will have a glass end seal. Examples would be CPO4B1 which would indicate it's an inserted tab constructed capacitor, case grounded. This type of construction makes this cap much smaller size. For example a .1uf / 100v cap will be roughly the same size as a .1uf / 600v cap. One must be extra careful when dealing with B type capacitors! With what might be some much needed real estate in your gear could come at a price if you do not give full attention to detail. Very easily you can you ruin sensitive components or even electrocute yourself. I would suggest putting some type of sleeving on CPOP4 and CPO8, A and B type capacitors. maybe some tape or shrink wrap tubing.

Probably the most popular paper in oil of all are Sprague's Vitamin Q capacitors. Sprague along with all of those other infamous capacitor mfg's like Astron, Gudeman, West-Cap, C-D, Good-All, Micamold among others used there own series identification codes along with the standard CPO codes. I will not get into all of them because like I said I don't want to be typing all night. But I will throw out a few tips for identifying some of them starting with everyone's favorite the Vitamin Q.

Sprague Vitamin Q capacitors had many different series / types
Vitamin Q types exceed performance requirements of MIL-C25A

Type 91P - These types have an inserted tab construction making them the smaller. Hermetically sealed glass to metal and an 85° C operating temp.
Type 96P - Equivalent to CPO4 & CPO5 types. Also inserted tab construction, hermetic sealed but with a 125° C operating temp.
Type 191P - These have an extended foil construction, hermetic sealed with a 85° C operating temp.
Type 196P - Equivalent to CPO8 & CPO9 types. Also extended foil construction, hermetic sealed but with a 125° C operating temp.

Vitamin Q capacitors usually have an 11 digit code. The first 3-4 digits indicating series construction. The following 3 digits indicate capacitance. Followed by a digit indicating tolerance, which is represented by a 9 = 10% or a 0 = 20%. The following digit or 8th character indicates voltage x 100. And followed by 2 characters indicating terminal and vibration grade which I won't get into.
ex. 191P47293S4 = Vitamin Q .0047uf / 300v 10%...

Ok I covered the most popular and abundant types for the most part. To end this article I'm going to name off a few codes or tips to look for on these vintage caps so you can confirm that are indeed paper in oil capacitors and not just some polyester film cap in a metal casing. hope this helps some people out or is at least is some what good knowledge to have. Like I said I didn't cover everything so if you have questions feel free to contact me through my eBay store _ _ _ _ _ _.

Vitamin Q's - SR196P, 181P, 86P, P68, CR, CPV
Cornell-Dubilier - TWU, TWS
Astron - TQF, TQS
Pyramid - EPGIXV
Good-All, Micamold, Gen. Instr. - 354A, 627G, 613G
West-Cap - 815, FSN

Other Standard Paper in Oil codes that represent type of casing such as rectangular metal cans, bathtub, threaded end with nut, chassis mountable and o-tab. These are just the initial digits and will be followed by other digits indicating specs. -
CP53, CP61 to CP72, CP10, CP11, CP12, CP28, CR, BP
A good rule of thumb for these types is to remember that an A or B after the initial 2 to 4 digits indicates case floating or case grounded. Like talked about above. ex. CP11B3 = Paper in Oil with threaded end and nut, case grounded. CP11A would be a floating case .

---------

Cheers

Lar



Hey bro why wouldn't you acknowledge the fact that I WROTE THAT ARTICLE! ? I cant believe you actually just threw that up on a thread as if you took the time to write it. Most people would have just put a link up like this one ... http://reviews.ebay.com/Identifying-Vintage-Paper-in-Oil-Capacitor-Codes_W0QQugidZ10000000009401410 but whatever man hope you felt good for a minute, sorry to burst your bubble but next time give credit where it belongs.
 
I never once got the impression that the OP was implying he wrote it, just providing some info. that he thought might be of interest.




Thanks diamondsouled, It was a interesting and informative read :thmbsp:

RC
 
When I rebuilt my heathkit aa-81 mono's they all used a single vitamin Q .047 in the coupling between the splitter and output stage the rest were mica mold pyrmids and tropics. I ended up putting the vitamin's back in the amps that 1 cap changes the whole sound of the amp for the better in this case. I actually tried a few different caps in that spot and always came back to the vitamin's they seen to have a real nice sound to them.
 
I wondered if he wrote it; the way it was presented the authorship was kind of ambiguous. It is great information and the original author should absolutely have been credited. Glad to know who it was, Audio Square. I hope despite the awkward introduction you'll be inclined to share more of your knowledge with us. Welcome!
 
Hey bro why wouldn't you acknowledge the fact that I WROTE THAT ARTICLE! ? I cant believe you actually just threw that up on a thread as if you took the time to write it. Most people would have just put a link up like this one ... http://reviews.ebay.com/Identifying-Vintage-Paper-in-Oil-Capacitor-Codes_W0QQugidZ10000000009401410 but whatever man hope you felt good for a minute, sorry to burst your bubble but next time give credit where it belongs.

Oops. I usually put up a link to the original articles when I quote them but didn't on that one for some reason. I did use a colon though which usually indicates to me that what follows is a quote:

2 plural colons a : a punctuation mark : used chiefly to direct attention to matter (as a list, explanation, quotation, or amplification) that follows

------

I didn't write the above it's from Merriam Webster on line, ;^).

Cheers

Lar
 
Last edited:
Now I remember Omar! Someone posted it over on AA with no accreditation, that's why there was no link, not any desire on my part to take credit where credit is not due.

Also I used ------- at the bottom of the article which I would not have had it been my own info. I just cut and pasted the info because it is worth sharing. :yes:

The Sprague Mil Spec catalog I mentioned has arrived. I've been busy since my move getting the house and shop straightened away but I'll get around to scanning it soon. Lots of useful info worth sharing in that as well. :D

Viva la internet!!!!

Cheers

Lar
 
Now I remember Omar! Someone posted it over on AA with no accreditation, that's why there was no link, not any desire on my part to take credit where credit is not due.

<snip>

Cheers

Lar

Bet that "someone" over at AA has a sig line "If the powersupply waveform.....". Ya think? He rarely provides proper attribution for the articles he posts even though it's been pointed out to him on numerous occasions.
 
Bet that "someone" over at AA has a sig line "If the powersupply waveform.....". Ya think? He rarely provides proper attribution for the articles he posts even though it's been pointed out to him on numerous occasions.

:D. Me thinks I know whose ya means. :scratch2:

Cheers

Lar
 
Back
Top Bottom