nissan guy
Super Member
What about the apm 22es? They seem to have the multi piston thing going on with the 4 dimples in the cone. Do they have rubber surrounds?
Sony apm?
- Thread starter nissan guy
- Start date
ARRAY
Super Member
I'm certain those 22's use single magnet structures. Those mount caps you see in the diaphragms are there to cover/strengthen up the joint between the laminate and the four aluminum tubular pillars (pushrods) extended from atop the v.c. former.
nissan guy
Super Member
Ok thanks for the clarification. Do they have rubber surrounds or are all the sony es speakers using foam?
Just saw this thread and I had to post.
The GOOD. Sony APM foams can be made by the enterprising guy - foams are easily made by heat pressing, though that may not be the way all foams are made. For example, some companies cut or slice the foam. I have a pair of APM-77W's with no foam. Looked high and low - till I found a guy on Ebay Germany selling restored APM's. He sells APM-33W's, 77's and has a pair of 8's. I have the foams I bought from him but have not had the time to restore my APM's yet. See the pics attached in a previous thread I had started.
The BAD. Lots of APM speaker spinoffs from Sony. I don't know why they did it, but they put crappy speakers looking like they were real APM's in television speakers, etc. So you have to watch out and recognize the real deals.
The real deals are the APM-8, 6 (has the same drivers as the 8, but only 2), APM-4 (8,6,4 are ESPRIT) and APM-77 (same drivers as APM-4), 55, 33, 22. The 22 was made later. Another model is the APM-66ES. This came in different flavors with the European ones having round cone mids. One thing to note though is that the APM-66 has a tweeter that's special. It's got a thin layer of amorphous diamond. Here's a google link:
http://books.google.com/books?id=lW...YQ6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q=apm-66es diamond&f=false
The GOOD. Sony APM foams can be made by the enterprising guy - foams are easily made by heat pressing, though that may not be the way all foams are made. For example, some companies cut or slice the foam. I have a pair of APM-77W's with no foam. Looked high and low - till I found a guy on Ebay Germany selling restored APM's. He sells APM-33W's, 77's and has a pair of 8's. I have the foams I bought from him but have not had the time to restore my APM's yet. See the pics attached in a previous thread I had started.
The BAD. Lots of APM speaker spinoffs from Sony. I don't know why they did it, but they put crappy speakers looking like they were real APM's in television speakers, etc. So you have to watch out and recognize the real deals.
The real deals are the APM-8, 6 (has the same drivers as the 8, but only 2), APM-4 (8,6,4 are ESPRIT) and APM-77 (same drivers as APM-4), 55, 33, 22. The 22 was made later. Another model is the APM-66ES. This came in different flavors with the European ones having round cone mids. One thing to note though is that the APM-66 has a tweeter that's special. It's got a thin layer of amorphous diamond. Here's a google link:
http://books.google.com/books?id=lW...YQ6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q=apm-66es diamond&f=false
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I have no clue about the 20ES. I suggest you create a new thread, someone who is knowledgeable about the 20ES might actually see it. 
goanlisten
Active Member
Here's a little I know of the 20ES-
1. It's a smaller version of the 22ES (smaller cab, woofer etc)
2. The main difference is it uses a conventional round dome tweeter
3. I've never seen one, nor see any on ebay, which leads me to think they must be good (no re-sales) or rare.
Thank you, goanlisten.
I didn't think it justified a whole new thread. Just a quick question. I have a pair, given to me by an old guy who'd had them sitting in a closet for a couple of decades. They sound quite good for their size. These ones also have rubber surrounds. Also a neat-o rectangular port made from the cabinet materials. Looks slick. I used them for rear surrounds for some time, with SS-G7s as mains.
And yes, I also had a stereo amp for music. I would not have forced my beautiful G7s to be driven by an HT receiver all the time.
The 20ESs are the only audio anythings I still have from back then. I miss my G7s daily.
It all started back in the spring of '83. You see... ...kidding. Sorry. End of aimless rant!
I didn't think it justified a whole new thread. Just a quick question. I have a pair, given to me by an old guy who'd had them sitting in a closet for a couple of decades. They sound quite good for their size. These ones also have rubber surrounds. Also a neat-o rectangular port made from the cabinet materials. Looks slick. I used them for rear surrounds for some time, with SS-G7s as mains.
And yes, I also had a stereo amp for music. I would not have forced my beautiful G7s to be driven by an HT receiver all the time.
The 20ESs are the only audio anythings I still have from back then. I miss my G7s daily.
It all started back in the spring of '83. You see... ...kidding. Sorry. End of aimless rant!
Lol you know more about it than anyone else! When you have the time please take some pics - we' d love to see its innards.
goanlisten
Active Member
OH Yes! That must be one nice sounding audio setup.
I've had the SS-G7s on my list of "audio to dream about" for a few years now and they are just as rare as the APM-6's and APM-4's which have (in turn) migrated over to my "un-affordable Audio gear list" but then again dreaming is free..........
Ah yes the SS-G7s were pretty amazing speakers. Best I've ever heard so far, and the only ones that made the fast-paces songs in Vital Tech Tones sound good. Specifically the second song, with three talented musicians going nuts on the drums, bass guitar, and electric guitar, it just turned into a sloppy mess on everything else I've tried so far. But the G7s made each note of each component of the music sound distinct.
So about the APM-20ES. I don't know much about them. Looks like a 3/4" dome tweeter made out of some kind of plastic, it seems. The woofer measures 6x6".
I did take one apart for you. Keep in mind I only have a cell phone camera, and not a good one, at the moment.
Back of the tweeter.
Woofer says 120A001
IMP 6 50W Max
Made In Japan
Ah, yes, and if you can't make it out, the tweeter says IMP 6 10W Max. Must be crossed over high because I've pushed them here and there.
So about the APM-20ES. I don't know much about them. Looks like a 3/4" dome tweeter made out of some kind of plastic, it seems. The woofer measures 6x6".
I did take one apart for you. Keep in mind I only have a cell phone camera, and not a good one, at the moment.
Back of the tweeter.
Woofer says 120A001
IMP 6 50W Max
Made In Japan
Ah, yes, and if you can't make it out, the tweeter says IMP 6 10W Max. Must be crossed over high because I've pushed them here and there.
Atropos, thanks for the pics! The tweeter looks good to me. The woofer though is a bit lower grade - does not have the special qualities of an APM. To put it in perspective, the real ones have 4 magnets and 4 voice coil assemblies. Those are the best APM's. OTOH, the better ones like the 66ES have a single voice coil and a four prong linkage to the flat cone. Kinda like yours. It still makes for a unique design.
There's one thing about Sony APM tweeter wattage ratings. I cannot remember the source, maybe it was vintage Philips. I remember that back in the day some manufacturers rated tweeter wattage with a full spectrum of frequency, like pink noise. These ratings are based on different standards and not many people realize it. That may be the answer to lower rated vintage TOTL from Sony. Sony also paid attention to the distribution of energy in the music spectrum.
http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/freeabs_all.jsp?arnumber=1165651
The APM-77W tweeter has a rating of 10 Watts, but the entire system is rated for 200W max. Ideally, I would run them with a 200 watt RMS amp.
There's one thing about Sony APM tweeter wattage ratings. I cannot remember the source, maybe it was vintage Philips. I remember that back in the day some manufacturers rated tweeter wattage with a full spectrum of frequency, like pink noise. These ratings are based on different standards and not many people realize it. That may be the answer to lower rated vintage TOTL from Sony. Sony also paid attention to the distribution of energy in the music spectrum.
http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/freeabs_all.jsp?arnumber=1165651
The APM-77W tweeter has a rating of 10 Watts, but the entire system is rated for 200W max. Ideally, I would run them with a 200 watt RMS amp.
goanlisten
Active Member
Atropos, thanks for the pics! and taking the trouble to break into your APM 20ES speakers.
The tweeter is completely different from my APM-33's - The tweeter in the apm 33 is made of that honeycomb material - The woofer shares some characteristics with the apm-20, like for instance the four contact points to the flat panel are similar, and the casting block also looks similar but is much larger in size due to the woofer panel being wider (324cm). Here's some pics I found on the net.
The tweeter is completely different from my APM-33's - The tweeter in the apm 33 is made of that honeycomb material - The woofer shares some characteristics with the apm-20, like for instance the four contact points to the flat panel are similar, and the casting block also looks similar but is much larger in size due to the woofer panel being wider (324cm). Here's some pics I found on the net.
Attachments
Sony APM speakers
Hi , I have a pair of Sony APM 20ES speaker for 25 years and recently got my hands on a few other sets of Sony APM speakers.
Can any APM expert tell me in which order would you evalueate these speakers.
what I mean is which speakers are considered to be the best in order 1. 2. and 3.
1. APM 33W
2. APM 20ES
3. APM 22ES
Thanks regards Matthew
Hi , I have a pair of Sony APM 20ES speaker for 25 years and recently got my hands on a few other sets of Sony APM speakers.
Can any APM expert tell me in which order would you evalueate these speakers.
what I mean is which speakers are considered to be the best in order 1. 2. and 3.
1. APM 33W
2. APM 20ES
3. APM 22ES
Thanks regards Matthew
nissan guy
Super Member
I am sure everyone is aware of this already but there is a person selling new correct fitment square foam surrounds on ebay for the apm's last i checked.
nissan guy
Super Member
Send the person an email. I am sure if he is selling the other sizes the 55's will be somewhere in line to be re made.