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Sony CDP 307 ESD vs Marantz CD 72

F

Fafaafooie

Active Member
So I just picked up a Sony CDP 307 ESD of CL and have been going back and forth on tape 1 and Tape 2 with my existing Marantz CD72 I've had several years and really like. It's a tank.

The CD72 is noticeably louder and brighter, I haven't listened enough to say which I prefer at this point but the Marantz pops and the Sony doesn't.
The Sony has the allegedly better Phillips 1541 processor and the Marantz has some other type of Phillips unit that has mixed reviews. I thought it sounded great until hearing the Sony which supposedly is a better unit.

Full disclosure, I don't have as high quality rca cables on the Sony as I do the Marantz but I can't account for the difference in sound because of just a cable. The Sony just sounds lower and muddier compared but I have nothing to compare it to really.

So my question is ... Does the Sony probably need some recapping and a bench visit (previous owner had bought it from someone and knows nothing about it) or would these two units just sound drastically different ?
I hate to spend money just to find out that's just how each one sounds.
Thanks for any ideas!
 
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Well, there are a number things that can influence the sound besides the DAC chip. The 307ESD has a TDA1541A DAC which has a 16 bit word length. The Marantz CD72 has a SAA7350GP, which has a 20-bit word length.

Both these DACs are over-sampling and noise shaping. They also probably have different op-amps, so that could make a difference.

And, of course, the transports are different. The Marantz has Philips' CD4/16 transport, which is a swing arm, while the 307ESD has Sony's KSS-150A, which rides on rails.

Age is also a factor. Perhaps another component on the PCB is out of spec all these years later on one unit and not the other.

There are way too many variables to determine if it's just the DAC that makes a difference.
 
And just a note. The KSS-150A mechanism is no longer made. If it goes, you'll need a donor CD player. Supposedly the CD4/16 mechanism Philips used is more reliable than Sony's.

If you want the best of both worlds (CD4/16 and TDA1541), look at the Magnavox CDB 582/Philips CD582. I grabbed one (with remote) from eBay for $100 back in January and am pretty happy with it.
 
The Shocker said:
And just a note. The KSS-150A mechanism is no longer made. If it goes, you'll need a donor CD player. Supposedly the CD4/16 mechanism Philips used is more reliable than Sony's.

If you want the best of both worlds (CD4/16 and TDA1541), look at the Magnavox CDB 582/Philips CD582. I grabbed one (with remote) from eBay for $100 back in January and am pretty happy with it.
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Thanks for the reply. I appreciate the info I know very little about the technical side of these things. I just have ears... And they can tell there is an obvious Sonic difference. Still on the fence as to which sounds better the warmer/duller Sony or the louder/brighter Marantz.

I will keep my out for that Magnavox. Thanks.
 
You can spend a lifetime chasing gear to try to get the best sound. It's a losing chase, because there will always be something you think is better out there. At some point, you need to draw a line in the sand and just enjoy what you have.

It's fun collecting gear. It was more fun when you could actually go to thrift stores. Now, sadly, all you can do is find overpriced stuff on eBay.
 
The Shocker said:
You can spend a lifetime chasing gear to try to get the best sound. It's a losing chase, because there will always be something you think is better out there. At some point, you need to draw a line in the sand and just enjoy what you have.

It's fun collecting gear. It was more fun when you could actually go to thrift stores. Now, sadly, all you can do is find overpriced stuff on eBay.
Click to expand...
Well there are worse things to be addicted too. Certainly cheaper than a hooker or crack addiction. Or worse both!
I bought the Sony of CL and probably paid $50 too much but there is just junk on there lately. I only eBay electronics as a last resort. OfferUp and Letgo are ok too but a garage sale is the best way to find stuff on the cheap. It's more work but the wife just wants it gone usually and doesn't care what it is. I've gone to some where there was no stereo stuff out but I asked if they had anything and sure enough hidden in a closet there was some gear. Ya never know.
 
Fafaafooie said:
So I just picked up a Sony CDP 307 ESD of CL and have been going back and forth on tape 1 and Tape 2 with my existing Marantz CD72 I've had several years and really like. It's a tank.

The CD72 is noticeably louder and brighter, I haven't listened enough to say which I prefer at this point but the Marantz pops and the Sony doesn't.
The Sony has the allegedly better Phillips 1541 processor and the Marantz has some other type of Phillips unit that has mixed reviews. I thought it sounded great until hearing the Sony which supposedly is a better unit.

Full disclosure, I don't have as high quality rca cables on the Sony as I do the Marantz but I can't account for the difference in sound because of just a cable. The Sony just sounds lower and muddier compared but I have nothing to compare it to really.

So my question is ... Does the Sony probably need some recapping and a bench visit (previous owner had bought it from someone and knows nothing about it) or would these two units just sound drastically different ?
I hate to spend money just to find out that's just how each one sounds.
Thanks for any ideas!
Click to expand...

You say that the Marantz is noticeably louder. This is important because a slight difference in volume is subjectively perceived as a difference in tonal quality. The slightly louder one will seem to have more bass and more treble, and, of course, one may hear details that are barely too soft to hear in the other. This tonal perception is what "Loudness Compensation" circuits are all about, as they boost bass to try to make up for this when listening at soft volumes.

For a bit more on that topic:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal-loudness_contour

You can also do searches online for more information on this.

The consequence of this aspect of human hearing is this: If you want to know if the one is actually better than the other, and not just a difference in level, you need to precisely level match the outputs or you will never know if any perceived difference is just a difference in volume or is something else.


There is also the issue of double blind listening, due to bias. Because people get all worked up about this topic when applied to audio, I will refer you to some interesting testing done with wine. Here is one article; you can search for many on this issue:

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/...-makes-you-think-expensive-wine-tastes-better

People thought the wine tasted better when they were told it cost more, even when they were given the same wine. But the really interesting thing is that the MRI shows that they really experienced it differently, and were not simply lying about it. What this demonstrates is the fact that human perceptions of things are influenced by beliefs about the things in question. To remove this effect, one must do one's testing double blind, as otherwise, one's beliefs about it will affect one's perception.
 
Thanks for the link on loudness. I've always wondered about that.

I've been listening to 2 copies of the same Eagles Greatest Hits CD and starting both at the same time and going back and forth between tape 1 and Tape 2 to hear the difference. Could it be it's just slightly louder or the loudness effect you just mentioned .. maybe? I can get what I think is the same sound by raising the treble and mids tone control and a minor volume bump on my preamp. Once I do that they sound similar.
I guess I can detune the Marantz and lower volume to get it so sound like the Sony if that's the case.
 
Fafaafooie said:
Thanks for the link on loudness. I've always wondered about that.

I've been listening to 2 copies of the same Eagles Greatest Hits CD and starting both at the same time and going back and forth between tape 1 and Tape 2 to hear the difference. Could it be it's just slightly louder or the loudness effect you just mentioned .. maybe? ...
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Yes. Many differences that people hear between different equipment is explained by the fact that they typically do not match the volume levels precisely. So they end up believing that one has better bass or gives them more detail, when it is just a difference in volume.
 
Pyrrho said:
There is also the issue of double blind listening, due to bias. Because people get all worked up about this topic when applied to audio,
Click to expand...

Double-blind testing is ESSENTIAL for audio, especially when you're making a claim to others.

If you're going to say "The Sony CDP-307ESD sound better to me than the Marantz CD72" that's fine.

But if you say 'The Sony CDP-307ESD is hands down better than the Marantz CD72!", well the requires some measurements and double-blind testing.

But since this is for @Fafaafooie personal enjoyment, I would agree that he should level match and re-compare.
 
The Shocker said:
Double-blind testing is ESSENTIAL for audio, especially when you're making a claim to others.

If you're going to say "The Sony CDP-307ESD sound better to me than the Marantz CD72" that's fine.

But if you say 'The Sony CDP-307ESD is hands down better than the Marantz CD72!", well the requires some measurements and double-blind testing.

But since this is for @Fafaafooie personal enjoyment, I would agree that he should level match and re-compare.
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This is why I haven't decided which I prefer yet. I have to get better rca's as well as a more stable shelf for the Sony.
 
The Shocker said:
Isn't line level out a standard? Or is the standard just the output voltage and not the gain?
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No, it is not a precise standard. It is only a loose standard. Sometimes things are so far off that there are compatibility issues, but most of the time, one simply turns one's volume control a little further or a little less to get the end result one wants.

Every now and then, one may run across a thread in which someone complains about their sources being different volumes, such that they have to change their volume control setting whenever they switch which source they are using. Most of the time, though, it is close enough that people do not perceive it as a problem. But that does not mean that there is no affect if one compares two things, due to the fact that human hearing is not linear and that differences in volume are subjectively perceived as differences in tonal quality (not to mention the rather obvious fact that one can hear details in a slightly louder signal that are too soft to hear in the slightly softer signal).


Edited to add:

You can also find equipment that has output level controls for their line level outputs. Some tuners, tape decks, CD players, etc., have such controls. The output is still "line level" when one uses the control and changes the level a bit.
 
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So after really using the player it started to stutter skip like crazy.
I contacted the seller from CL and he said he would refund my $180 which is pretty awesome I have to say was not expecting that. He sells a bunch on CL and Ebay so definitely a great seller.

That being said should I just keep it and get it fixed? I paid a fair price based off of what I see on eBay. I doubt it will cost more than $100 give or take $20 so I'd have about $300 in it. Can I get a better used or new player for $300??

I'm not a CD guy so I'm willing to learn a little. My Max budget would be $400ish.
 
Well, simple fix you can do yourself is clean the rails with alcohol and re-lubricate them. That MIGHT fix the issue. If it's the laser assembly that's causing the skipping, you may be screwed. Sony discontinued all ESD laser pickups a long time ago.
 
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