Sony PS-11 or Dual CS-1245?

[Derek O]

Hey guys!

So after struggling to fix my Dad's old Denon DP-51f and getting quotes upwards of 400$ to fix, I decided to go ahead and buy some vintage Turntables!!

Picked up a CS-1245 for 60$ - Automatic function isn't working 100% and doesn't move into the play position automatically and needs a little push but is otherwise working fine. Running a Pickering XV-15 625E.

Picked up the Sony PS-11 for 100$ - Works flawlessly. Not sure what Cartridge is on this guy.

Anyone have any opinions on which one they'd keep to build a nice system around? I'll be giving the other one to my sister

Thanks!!
D

 

[lini]

Derek: Tough one. The Dual sports the better, more sophisticated arm - whereas the drive of the Sony should be a bit better (at least in terms of wow & flutter), and I'd also generally prefer the standard SME/Techniics-style-mount headshell to Dual's cartridge TK14/24/15/25 cartridge carrier design.

Can't coment on how servicable the Sony might be in the long run, but as a direct drive it will definitely contain more electronics than the electronically really simple belt-drive design of the Dual (with a synchronous AC motor syncing to mains power frequency).

Feature-wise the Dual is fully automatic with additional stacking capabilities, while the Sony only is an auto-lift, -stop & -return type of semi-automatic single-play model. Otherwise it's pretty much a tie - the 1245 only features one combined 50/60 Hz ring of markings for 33 1/3 rpm on its "saw-tooth platter" and a combined pitch-control knob for 33 1/3 and 45 rpm, though.

Hmmm... All in all, I'd think the PS-11 should go to your sister, because with the sooner or later restored DP-51F you'll have a better direct-drive model anyway. While the 1245 should easily be good enough to tide you over until then - and then it'll be a nice complement, due to representing a different, almost entirely mechanical approach, provided you've got enough space to keep it set up, too, or at least a nice back-up table, which you might also swap for the DP-51F for party duty...

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini

 

[Derek O]

@lini

Thanks for the detailed response! I tend to agree with your logic.. It's unfortunate because the PS-11 is such a nice looking turntable and I'm a sucker for a pretty face. Though I am leaning towards giving the PS-11 away as of now.

I do find the Dual sounds a little warmer than the Sony which is typically my preference also.

Also any thoughts on how easy a fix the automatic move would be? I'm not experienced with turntables but am a technically sound human being. Would like to try if it's not something super difficult.

Cheers,
D

 

[Moby Dick]

Can you keep both?

I love the late 70s S arm style.
It's half the reason I enjoy this great hobby,
Visual stimuli!

Good luck with your decision.

 

[lini]

Derek: Well, you'd probably best start with downloading the service manual (or having a look at it over on Lulabu's archive: http://dual.pytalhost.eu/1245s/), so you get an idea, how things are supposed to work and (as far as the manual allows) to look like. Then you'd best first check the condition of the lubrication - if that 1245 has never been relubed before, it'll be in dire need of that anyway.

If that isn't the problem or respectively doesn't already cure the problem, you'd next best check, whether the Steuerpimpel is still ok and the surface of the main lever facing the Steuerpimpel is free from grease and dirt - and also check, whether the arm as such moves freely by balancing it, putting it close to end of record area and then applying 0.5 on the anti-skating, 'cause that should suffice to pull the arm back towards its rest in one smooth motion.

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini

 

[Derek O]

Replaced the Steurepimpel last night with the inner Coax cable, and it works like a charm! Now I need to get some grease to get the mechanisms working smoothly, it sounds a little rough right now. Recommendations for grease and oil I can get for all the parts without buying all 6 types of grease?

Decided I'll be keeping the Dual and giving away the Sony (for the time being

Thanks for all the help Manfred/Lini, much appreciated from over here in Canada!

Derek

 

[SpruceMoose]

I've enjoyed my 1245 since I bought it new in the late '70's. It's been lubed and belted once.

 

[stereofisher]

Though I like direct drives, I don't like their electronics. Could be OK for a long time or fail! Everyone knows I am married to Dual's. Mostly rm drives. About a year ago I got a belt drive 601 with the speed issue. Got it to learn about Dual belt drives. Still have not taken it apart. Play with it repeating on and off and the speed is right. When right it sounds really good. Needs stuerpimple. Based on how my 601 sounds, you made the right choice with the 1245. Had many Dual's since my first one in 1967. God I am getting old. The Mrs is gone for two weeks. Have three of them upstairs. Playing all three. A 1219,1229, and a 1010A. Enjoy your 1245. Once serviced, which is what you are doing, it will run a long time without issues. Mine all were done three to four years ago. Been fine since. Good choice!

Eric

 

[lini]

Sorry, Derek, but the requirements are too different, so a single type of oil or grease would never be able to cover the entire spectrum. Unfortunately Garage-a-records, who offered a lubrication kit, doesn't exist anymore - but Dualfred now offers a similar kit: http://www.dualfred.de/Switch--Poti--Plug-Spring-Screw-Bolt/Nut/Lubrication-Set-300131-en.html That should be a convenient solution for those who don't want to purchase suitable replacement lubricants separately. Personally I prefer the latter approach, though - 'cause, while costing about the same, that buys me larger amounts of each lubricant, and at least some of these lubes are also good not only for other consumer electronics stuff, but also for various other lubrication jobs at home (like door hinges or window mechanics...) or on one's vehicles...

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini