Sony TA-5650 upgrading

[Lorado]

Hi all, I am a new member from Australia and I bought a second-hand Sony TA-5650 V-Fet amplifier.
I read in this forum about how to measure the V-Fet transistors, so I removed them from the amplifier , cleaned them thoroughly from thermal paste and measured them according to Sony Hi-Fi Service Bulletin No. 62, and some posts by other knowledgeable members in this forum.
The results are as follows:
Nr. V-Fet Rank # Type S-D (ohm) S-G (mV) D-G (mV)
1 2SJ18 JL-54 PNP 2.4 493 493
2 2SJ18 HE-54 PNP 2.4 539 536
3 2SK60 JL-54 NPN 2.8 560 560
4 2SK60 JE-56 NPN 2.4 555 555
5 2SK60 HC-54 NPN 2.8 554 548
6 2SK60 JE-56 NPN 2.6 551 550
7 2SJ18 HD-54 PNP 2.6 554 550
8 2SJ18 HD-54 PNP 2.8 510 507
I measured these with my Tenma DMM, which lowest range for resistance is 200 Ohms, so I think the Source to Drain resistance might be a bit high, but overall the V-Fets seem to be ok. The amp was probably repaired in the past with two different ranking transistors, but as long as it works it should be good, shouldn't it?

Next steps will be replacing the four VD1221 double-diodes (D301,303; D351,353) with 2x 1n4148 in series, with heat-shrink tubing and thermal paste on the Bias-transistors Q310,360, replacing the bias pots RT301,351 (2.2k) with Bourns 1k multi-turn trimmers, and making a list of all the electrolytic capacitors that need to be replaced.

Cheers,
Walter

 

[Lorado]

Sony TA-5650 electrolytic and ceramic capacitor list and replacements

Ref.No. Number Value (uF) Voltage Type Remarks
C001,002 2 0.001 50 Ceramic
C101,151 2 10 100 EC
C103,153 2 470 35 EC
C106 1 3.3 100 EC
C109,159 2 22p 50 Ceramic
C202,252 2 100p 50 Ceramic
C203,253 2 100p 50 Ceramic
C205,255 2 10 100 EC
C211,261 2 100p 50 Ceramic
C212,262 2 1000 10 EC
C213,263 2 3.3 100 EC
C218,268 2 0.47 50 EC
C230,280 2 3.3 100 EC
C231,281 2 33p 50 Ceramic
C301,351 2 10 100 EC
C303,353 2 47 50 EC
C304,354 2 5p 50 Ceramic
C305,355 2 100 35 EC
C307,357 2 100 50 EC
C308,358 2 47 10 EC
C309,359 2 47 10 EC
C310,360 2 10p 50 Ceramic
C313,363 2 10p 50 Ceramic
C316,366 2 10 50 EC
C402 1 100 50 EC
C404 1 330 10 EC
C406 1 10 25 EC
C407 1 100 100 EC
C408,409 2 47 50 EC
C410 1 0.47 50 EC
C411 1 220 6.3 EC
C412,413 2 47 50 EC
C414 1 100 50 EC
C415 1 100 100 EC
C416 1 100 50 EC
C417 1 10 50 EC
C418,419 2 0.01 500 Ceramic
C420,421 2 10000 50 EC Screw terminals 12.5mm lead spacing, W40mm
C501 1 470 6.3 EC

Order list

Number Value (uF) Voltage Type Description Size (mm) Remarks
2 5E-12 50 Ceramic C0G 5 5p
4 1E-11 50 Ceramic C0G 5 10p
2 2.2E-11 50 Ceramic C0G 5 22p
2 3.3E-11 50 Ceramic C0G 5 33p
6 1E-10 50 Ceramic C0G 5 100p
2 0.001 50 Ceramic C0G 5 1000p/1n
2 0.01 500 Ceramic C0G 5 10000p/10n
3 0.47 50 EC Elna Silmic II 5x11
5 3.3 100 EC Elna Silmic II 8x11.5
1 10 25 EC Elna Silmic II 5x11
3 10 50 EC Elna Silmic II 8x11.5
6 10 100 EC Elna Silmic II 10x16
4 47 10 EC Elna Silmic II 5x11
6 47 50 EC Elna Silmic II 10x16
2 100 35 EC Elna Silmic II 10x20
5 100 50 EC Elna Silmic II 12.5x20
4 100 100 EC Elna Silmic II 16x25 optional 2x upgrade in power supply orig. 50V C414,416
1 220 6.3 EC Elna Silmic II 10x12.5
1 330 25 EC Elna Silmic II 12.5x25 Orig. 10V, unobtainable
1 470 6.3 EC Elna Silmic II 10x20
2 470 35 EC Elna Silmic II 16x31.5
2 1000 10 EC Elna Silmic II 16x25
2 10000 63 EC KG Series 40x80 Orig. 50V, Solder lug (screw terminals unobtainable)

Ceramics in the signal path can also be substituted by polypropylene or polyester film caps, e.g. Wima MKP, MKS, FKP2
Mylar film caps do not have to be replaced

N.B.: This capacitor list is for AEP model (International) w/ serial numbers 501,901 and later.

 

[Lorado]

Sony TA-5650 VD1221 double-diodes and bias trimmers replacement

D301,303

D351,353

Replacement 2 x 1n4148 in series


RT301,351 (RV301,351 on PCB) Left and Right channel, respectively

Replacement 2k or 1k (for more precision) Bourns multi-turn trimmers

 

[mbz]

Firstly, welcome to AK, the guys and gals are willing to help out, but you seem to have everything under control.

Capacitor selection is subjective at the best of times. I use Elna Silmic II for audio path and local power storaged
with the exception of the low leakage types typically found in phono stages and preamps (orange colour?). Nichicon KL
is the electrolytic preferred. An alternative would be MKS. Regarding power supply, I've switched from a mix of silmic II's
and Nichicon to mostly Nichicon PW and EP where bipolar needed. Keep in mind the Silmic II's don't have a high ripple
rating. Nichicon ES for bipolar audio path. You've chosen quality parts so your time/effort won't be wasted.

 

[Lorado]

Hi mbz, thanks for your welcome. I do hope I have everything under control, although I still have to switch the amp on (without the V-Fets at first) and start measuring voltages.
I might run into some snags then, and have some questions.
Yes, capacitor choice might be the most talked about topic ever.
For capacitors I could choose between Nichicon Fine Gold series, KG series, Elna Cerafine or Silmic II. Elna seems to have the most different values I need.
I might change some power board caps to low ripple caps.
I noticed 4 orange Nichicon H7622 caps on the preamp board, 47uF 10V, small ones. So these are low leakage types and should be kept in there?
I also noticed there is one input electrolytic cap for each channel, C301 and C351, 10uF 100V. This should preferably be a high quality cap, right? Or maybe a PP or better film cap if possible. However, a 10uF film cap would be quite large at 100V.
Same goes for the electrolytic feedback caps C305 and C355, 100uF 35V.

 

[Oldsansui441]

Hi and welcome, you will get plenty of help from friendly people here.

Great advise here from mbz, any of the orange low leakage Nichicons would be better served being replaced with the Nichicon KL's as he said including those on the pre amp board you mention.
I have used Nichicon KZ's and Elna Silmic 2's and they are both great caps but l would say that the KZ's are just as good but are cheaper, when l can't use KZ's because of smaller values not being available or because of physical size restraints l use the FG's.

KZ's and Silmic 2's have large diameters so just keep this in mind.

You are correct, the physical size of a film cap even in a polyester at 10uF will be too big to fit in the space provided on the board so a good quality e-cap of the ones you mention will do fine IF the originals are the standard grey Elna's or blue Nichicon's in these positions.

I would check all resistor values for drift also, especially those fusible resistors that stand up off the board.

All the best with your build .

 

[mbz]

Agree, KZ's are a good buy.

 

[smurfer77]

Yes polypropylene will be too big but there are 10uF polyesters that fit those coupling positions. I used them in my TA-5650

 

[Lorado]

I just received a Sony Service Manual for the TA-5650 from www.stereomanuals.com and I must say that the scan is a LOT more clear than the freely available pdf's from hifiengine.com!
I can only recommend them for a great product and fast service.

 

[Lorado]

Finally received some parts for the Sony V-Fet. Looks like the big power capacitors by Nippon Chemicon 10,000uF / 50V (40x70mm)

can be replaced by either United-Chemicon 15,000uF / 63V with screw terminals, lead spacing 12.7mm (35x92mm, Mouser part nr. 661-E32D630N153MA92M),
or by Nichicon LKG Series Gold Tune 10,000uF / 63V, solder lug terminals, lead spacing 15mm centre-to-centre, (40x80mm, Mouser part nr. 647-LKG1J103MKN).

When using the United-Chemicon capacitors, they have to be taped with foam tape to make them fit the original clamp, and the PCB holes have to be altered to make them fit, but they have screw terminals, like the originals.
Furthermore, they are 50% larger in capacity then the originals. This can be a good thing (more bass) or a bad thing (more stress on the power supply circuit). They are also 22mm higher than the originals.
When using the Gold Tunes, they will fit the original clamp, and fit the original holes in the PCB exactly. The lugs just have to be soldered, though, but that should not pose any problems. See pictures.

BTW, when I touched one of the four power diodes, it snapped in half. Looks like I have to replace all four as well.

 

[Lorado]

I looked the diode up and they are 4x U05E, a 2.5A, 400V, Silicon, rectifier diode. As I still have some BYT56M (1000V / 3A) fast avalanche soft recovery diodes, I will use those. They are supposed to be low noise for audio, so a good replacement.

 

[Vaughn]

I've got a 5650 that I'd love to rebuild, thanks for posting your progress. Mine is currently working but I don't use it as it hasn't had the "death" diodes replaced.

 

[slimecity]

It may be a good idea to test that you are getting the correct voltages now (before you do the recapping etc). After fixing up the rectifier diodes of course, and with having the VFETs out.....

That way if thins go wrong later on, you will be able to know whether it was (or wasn't ) as a result of your recapping work.

 

[Lorado]

Thanks Slimecity, I will certainly follow your advice.

 

[Wally1955]

wrong posting

 

[rottalpha]

Aloha
Sorry for late reply but maybe interesting info for some AK members
Just got 2 Sony's TA-5650 directly from Japan so when opening the covers i was estonished about what was inside 1 amp is a Multivoltage Model other one is Japan only 10OV
They looking totally different from inside please check urself
Need to find the Schematics for both to compare
The Multivoltage Amp got issues and need service other one is working excellent so will see what comes later if doin a soundcheck 1 to1 with units
Cheers

View attachment 1862864
Japan 100V Model
View attachment 1862866
View attachment 1862867
Multivoltage Export Model
View attachment 1862868
good sounding

you have a 4650 and a 5650....not two of the same. Am I missing anything?

 

[Wally1955]

you have a 4650 and a 5650....not two of the same. Am I missing anything?

Sorry guess my English is lousy beside i mixed something in the posting my foult
I got 1x5650 in the house and now the 4650 the other 5650 arrive in between the next few days
I couldn't resist bedding on the B-3 and the 3 Sony's luckly won this auctions
Cheers

 

[rottalpha]

Sorry guess my English is lousy beside i mixed something in the posting my foult
I got 1x5650 in the house and now the 4650 the other 5650 arrive in between the next few days
I couldn't resist bedding on the B-3 and the 3 Sony's luckly won this auctions
Cheers

no worries...

my comments were aimed at the comparison and the units being different on your pictures....and they are different because that are different models. I know that my 5650, 8550s are all multi-voltage. I am not sure if there was a Japan only version.