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Sony vs Nakamichi - Main selection criteria?

F

fvoelling

New Member
I'm looking at buying a more recent tape deck, hoping that it won't need any major work like most (all?) of the 70s/80s models seem to require.

I'm torn between a more recent vintage (late 90s) Sony deck and an early 90s Nakamichi. Some of the key differences between them are:

Sony--------------Nakamichi

$300 MSRP--------$700 MSRP
late 90s-----------early 90s
Dolby S------------n/a
Dolby HX Pro-------n/a

Single Capstan-----Dual

Direct Drive--------Belt Drive

n/a----------------cassette backlight

Street price is not that much more for the Nakamichi, and it probably has better build quality, but it is a few years older and has belt (vs direct) drive, and no Dolby S.

What's the better pick?
 
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If you were talking one of Sony's best offerings with Dolby S, then this would be highly debatable. But a mid-line Sony from that vintage is definitely inferior to most Naks, even despite the Dolby S.
 
Nakamichi > Sony. It's simple math. :D

Though in all seriousness Goldear is right a mid-level Sony is nothing to a mid-level Nak. Remember that Nakamichi was considered the king of cassette decks.
 
Dolby S is nice, but better frequency response on real world tape and lower flutter wins out in my house. Nakamichi wins here. The Sony is still excellent. My go to decks for sound are still Tandbergs and my reliability champion in cassette is still ReVox or Studer. If you feed the Sony Metal or high end Type II tapes the gap is narrower.
 
Thanks for the feedback. One of my main concerns is reliability and the need to have the unit serviced before I can use it, and on those accounts the Sony may have the upper end - it is a direct drive unit (no belts to change) and it is a few years younger.

Regarding single capstan, the Sony model in consideration is TC-KA1ESA. The next model up, the TC-KA3ES, does feature dual capstan as well as some other improvements, and maybe that's the one to pursue.

My intial focus is playback capabilities of commercial tapes, few of which I assume are recorded with anything higher than Dolby B? What kind of upper frequency response can I expect from these?

Now once I get my vinyl rig set up (my vintage Revox TT is getting serviced right now), I may want to transfer some records to tape, but only if those transfers get anywhere close to the original, especially in upper frequency extension. Chances are that I would want a separate deck for that from the one that I play used commercial tapes on, correct? Any suggestions for a suitable deck, either in terms of features and/or specific model #s, bearing in mind the service/reliability factor as well as the obvious sound quality?
 
The RX-202 or Cassette Deck 1.5, or anything else of the late models that is available and affordable.

Not much love for the Sonys here it seems (grew up lusting after Nakamichi decks myself, but I'm not handy with a soldering iron, so reliability and durability is primary).

guiller said:
Could you please name the Nakamichi model you were considering?
Click to expand...
 
This Sony TC-KA1ESA will be considerably inferior to the Nakamichi Cassette Deck 1.5, for sure. If you would like a later SONY deck, only the very top models worth a consideration - TC-KA3ES, TC-K970ES, TC-K990ES. Even one level down decks(TC-KA6ES, TC-K870ES, TC-K890ES) are not good without some modification (replacing 4066 CMOS switch). Another excellent later decks to look for are Aiwa XK-S7000 and XK-S9000. These are better than any Sony decks for playback and much better for recording.

Alex

P.S. - here is a hi-res digital recording (96 kHz 24 bits) from a cassette tape - recorded from a top quality vinyl. For copyright purposes it is only 36 sec. long (19 Mb). Check what kind of quality you can expect from a humble cassette. The tape used is Sony UX-Pro, without any noise reduction on a seriously modified Technics RS-B965M deck.
 
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I happen to love the Sony deck I have, the TC-K650. But if pressed I'd pick either of my two Naks, the BX-150 or CR-4a. There's just something about a Nakamichi.
 
I had a TC-K909ES and TC-K950ES deck and they were great, but I had mixed results with lower end Sony models. I guess it's hard to top a Nak...
 
Naka, hands down. Go for a good quality 3 head deck, and use metal tapes (TDK MA are the best from my experience). You should be able to hit +8 on the record level meter without too many issues, you probably won't even need Dolby too.

Dave

PS I have a CR-5, highly recommend this model, as good as the CR-7 and Dragon imho.
 
Save your money, go for the Sony ES three-head, closed-loop, dual capstan designs. Built to last and don't have idler wheel issues and the temperament of the Naks. The Sony's have great calibration features, rock solid transport/head design and are structurally built like tanks. If you're patient, you can find em popping up on Clist for under 200 clams in fantastic shape. Love Naks, but the performance per dollar ratio goes to Sony in my book. And I would agree, if you're after audiophile grade sound steer clear of most of the Sony non-ES decks.

My recommendations are:

TC-K870ES;
I just picked one of these up on Clist; dude said it was like new and he wasn't kidding. 150 clams! Not a scratch. I was floored. I've seen others show up on Clist but other buyers (probably the NTAC's resellers on eBoy) scarf'd them up before I could score...

TC-K890ES
TC-K950ES
TC-K970ES
TC-KA3ES

If you're patient, you can find any of these at prices significantly below current Nak price watermarks. Watch Clist, the "Gon" and even eBoy - and you'll see good prices pop up. Also, belts and motors are still available for most these units at very reasonable prices.
Another way to look at it is this, if you like to pop the hood of your gear and you like to tinker - Go with a Nak. If you're not inclined to service anything complicated in the long haul, and are just interested in enjoying quality sound reproduction - Go Sony ES. Sonys have great cross-compatibility with other decks whereas Naks tend not to. That might be an important consideration...
 
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Wow, Alex, quite impressive! And the 36 secs were enough to make me wonder who the artist/album is?

Alex Nikitin said:
This Sony TC-KA1ESA will be considerably inferior to the Nakamichi Cassette Deck 1.5, for sure. If you would like a later SONY deck, only the very top models worth a consideration - TC-KA3ES, TC-K970ES, TC-K990ES. Even one level down decks(TC-KA6ES, TC-K870ES, TC-K890ES) are not good without some modification (replacing 4066 CMOS switch). Another excellent later decks to look for are Aiwa XK-S7000 and XK-S9000. These are better than any Sony decks for playback and much better for recording.

Alex

P.S. - here is a hi-res digital recording (96 kHz 24 bits) from a cassette tape - recorded from a top quality vinyl. For copyright purposes it is only 36 sec. long (19 Mb). Check what kind of quality you can expect from a humble cassette. The tape used is Sony UX-Pro, without any noise reduction on a seriously modified Technics RS-B965M deck.
Click to expand...
 
fvoelling said:
...One of my main concerns is reliability and the need to have the unit serviced before I can use it...

My intial focus is playback capabilities of commercial tapes, few of which I assume are recorded with anything higher than Dolby B? What kind of upper frequency response can I expect from these?

Now once I get my vinyl rig set up (my vintage Revox TT is getting serviced right now), I may want to transfer some records to tape, but only if those transfers get anywhere close to the original, especially in upper frequency extension. Chances are that I would want a separate deck for that from the one that I play used commercial tapes on, correct? Any suggestions for a suitable deck, either in terms of features and/or specific model #s, bearing in mind the service/reliability factor as well as the obvious sound quality?
Click to expand...

For playing commercial tapes the Sony TC-KA1ESA will do just fine (commercial tapes tend to be pretty poor quality anyway...). When you get into recording your vinyl, however, you will probably want a better deck. Having different decks for different uses makes a lot of sense anyway.

I have a TC-K909ES and use that for my main recording deck at present. I like Dolby S and wanted backup machines to play any tapes committed to S, so I have two TC-KA1ESA decks in near-mint condition - and picked them up at very little cost. I'd have preferred the TC-KA3ES as a backup but couldn't find one at a good price when I was in the market. And, as BlazeES says, some of the parts are still available for these ES decks - although for how long is another question.

As for Naks, they are wonderful. I repaired a friends CR-4A and loved the open clarity of it. I picked up a BX-300 (a sleeper Nak..) and have it in my stack of stuff to service.

I liken Naks to fine sports cars that need on-going TLC, more frequent time in the shop, sometimes a deeper pocket to keep them running, but when you *do* drive them, it is a thrill!
 
stevesailor said:
. And, as BlazeES says, some of the parts are still available for these ES decks - although for how long is another question.
Click to expand...

As with everything, "how long" is a very important point and it's reasonable to think these parts won't last forever but then again, having lasted this long is quite nice if you ask me - twenty plus years - and I honestly didn't expect it. That said, one thing going for the dual drive ES decks starting from the late eighties is that they all share a common transport base - the TCM-200 platform - which is robust as all get up. What shocked me the most was finding, just recently, that both ancillary motors are still readily available and not knockoffs but actual Sony OEM stock. Belts and switches too. The DC brushless motor at the heart of the transport can be expected to last virtually forever so I wouldn't be too concerned about that component, but with the two housed motors still available it's a promising consideration. Another thing to keep in mind is that with a shared common platform like this, obtaining a suitable "parts deck" has wider implications for the longer term since transport parts can be leveraged from a vast array of models - and so many of these high-end decks saw little to almost no real action over the years. So many of these Sony decks can be found in near mint quality as well which is mind blowing.

I like steve's sports car analogy for the Naks too; well put! Naks are a whole different experience, quite enjoyable but yes there is still that TLC factor. I've owned both brands and have enjoyed both experiences, I just prefer the "no fuss" reliability of the Sonys. And sonically, they are right up there IMHO.
 
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The high-end ES series Sony decks are very nice -- one of those might be a good choice over a low-end Nak. But otherwise --and in the case of the two you mention, I suspect-- the Nakamichi will beat the Sony hands-down! (I've had both brands, and speak from experience.)

The belt drive is not necessarily a drawback on a cassette deck: while it can be a hassle to replace a belt every 10 years or so, that belt helps to reduce vibration reaching the recording area. Three heads are better than two. Nakamichi didn't use the Dolby and other noise-reduction because most of their decks were so well-engineered that they had superior performance without them -- to adopt those would have meant a REDUCTION in sound quality! Having owned top-level decks from probably a dozen brands, I'd say that nothing (except perhaps a Tandberg; I haven't heard their cassettes, which receive high praise) compares with a better Nak model, although some top-end models from other brands beat some lower-mid-level Naks.
 
Arkay said:
The high-end ES series Sony decks are very nice -- one of those might be a good choice over a low-end Nak. But otherwise --and in the case of the two you mention, I suspect-- the Nakamichi will beat the Sony hands-down! (I've had both brands, and speak from experience.)

The belt drive is not necessarily a drawback on a cassette deck: while it can be a hassle to replace a belt every 10 years or so, that belt helps to reduce vibration reaching the recording area. Three heads are better than two. Nakamichi didn't use the Dolby and other noise-reduction because most of their decks were so well-engineered that they had superior performance without them -- to adopt those would have meant a REDUCTION in sound quality! Having owned top-level decks from probably a dozen brands, I'd say that nothing (except perhaps a Tandberg; I haven't heard their cassettes, which receive high praise) compares with a better Nak model, although some top-end models from other brands beat some lower-mid-level Naks.
Click to expand...

Arkay,

Can you please elaborate on your statement that Nakamichi didn't use Dolby on most their decks because they were engineered so well? I think quite the opposite is true. Most the Nak decks if not all of the commerically successful decks did in fact employ Dolby over the same era as everyone else - dating back to the seventies. Now if you were implying that Naks were top-of-the-heap sonically when compared to others, both without the use of Dolby during recording, well then I think a strong case can be made for that, but I believe there's a large contingency of enthusiasts and technical folk that believe Nakamichi did quite a fine job of incorporating Dolby circuits into their machines.

UPDATE: And I know my response might spur some replies from others along the lines of "well Nakamichi just included Dolby to make sure they had the feature set to make their decks marketable" or something along those lines, but I would contend that if the Nak engineers really felt their machines kicked a$$ and didn't need noise reduction, they would have fought to leave it off and save a few bub.
Just saying...
 
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