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Sound problem PL-560 and Denon AVR-4306

bernaert

bernaert

New Member
I just bought and connect a Pioneer PL-560 to my Denon AVR-4306.

Any other channel and device I'm using I have a 'normal' volume on -35dB, to have it as background music.

For this PL-560 I need to put this on +6dB (where 16 is the max), and the music sounds like coming from a headphone, on maximum volume, laying a bit further on the table.

I have before another turntable, and there was no issue.

The owner says it is normal that i have to put the volume higher, but I'm 100% sure this is wrong.

- Anything I maybe don't know yet to setup the Denon?
- The turntable is on switch 220V. Here in Spain it is 230V. I switch this to 240V? Might this be te problem?

Thx!
 
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bernaert said:
I found already the solution. As these types of old turntables don't have pre-amp built in and are Phone Level output, I had to connect to a Phone Level Input channel on the Denon (instead of a regular Line Level Input for Cd, tv, ...)

I found the solution in this article: https://vinylrestart.com/how-to-make-your-turntable-louder/
Click to expand...

that’s a nice table you picked up, yes you will need a phono preamp or phono stage. Most vintage receivers have a built it phono stage.

You can find low buck external Phono stages online.

one thing to pay attn. to would be your cartridge. Is it a MM or a MC cart. Just make sure you pick up the correct preamp for your cart.
 
bernaert said:
I just bought and connect a Pioneer PL-560 to my Denon AVR-4306.

Any other channel and device I'm using I have a 'normal' volume on -35dB, to have it as background music.

For this PL-560 I need to put this on +6dB (where 16 is the max), and the music sounds like coming from a headphone, on maximum volume, laying a bit further on the table.

I have before another turntable, and there was no issue.

The owner says it is normal that i have to put the volume higher, but I'm 100% sure this is wrong.

- Anything I maybe don't know yet to setup the Denon?
- The turntable is on switch 220V. Here in Spain it is 230V. I switch this to 240V? Might this be te problem?

Thx!
Click to expand...


I just looked up your amp or AVR.

you have a dedicated phono stage. You need to look on the back of your amp for the 2 RCA jacks listed as PHONO, there is a ground lug to the right of it.

Try that input, If the volume is still low you may have a MC cart with low output and may need a simple step up.
 
jobrewer1983 said:
I just looked up your amp or AVR.

you have a dedicated phono stage. You need to look on the back of your amp for the 2 RCA jacks listed as PHONO, there is a ground lug to the right of it.

Try that input, If the volume is still low you may have a MC cart with low output and may need a simple step up.
Click to expand...

Scroll up. It appears he figured that out by post #2. :)
 
bernaert said:
is that a good cartridge? If not, or if there is better, what do yo advice @jobrewer1983 ?
Click to expand...

I’m a fan of AT carts, that is one of the intro carts, I have had many of them. Don’t even remember the model number. I think it’s a 3600. Or looks like it.

If it is the 3600, a lot of folks like them for the sound quality to price ratio. I usually use them when I’m restoring a table to give away. They are great starter carts and also great for general everyday tables of the more experienced audiophiles.

So to say is it good? Yes, it’s a good cart. I’m a big fan of AT, have many of their carts and other gear like levels, stabilizers and brushes and tip cleaners ext…

430756BE-503C-4B7D-A845-B97ECB54B85E.jpeg

now that said, if your running the PL-560, it might be good to invest in some 7 & 10 gram headshells in the event you want to try different carts.

before you spend any money on any new cart 1st get familiar with table set up. A lot of folks want to just buy a “better cart” when the issue is there table isn’t set up properly.

little things make a big difference in SQ with the proper set up.

things to learn if you don’t know already

1. Overhang - I’ll say it again overhang.
Download the manual for your table. It’s free on vinylengine and it’s a safe and trusted site. Look for the overhang measurement in the manual.

2. Alignment - invest in a quality protractor. A 2 or 3 point protractor is usually good.

Note: if your overhang is correct your alignment will be a lot easier to adjust.

3. Tracking force - invest the $10-$20 bucks in a table digital scale. Having an exact tracking force can be really helpful.

4.Anti Skate - set the anti skate to the same as the tracking force. An old laserdisc can help to set it correctly. Just look on YouTube of folks setting anti-skate with a laserdisc. It’s not complex.

Get familiar with your table and current cartridge before you install a new one. After you have the set up down, I’d try a new cart but I’d also look into a cart that would work well with the arm. I’d 1st ensure that the current cart was 100% dialed in prior to buying a new one. What you don’t want is to get a new cart and not set it up correctly and wonder why the sound isn’t good. :)
 
1. Overhang - I’ll say it again overhang.
Download the manual for your table. It’s free on vinylengine and it’s a safe and trusted site. Look for the overhang measurement in the manual
Click to expand...

I think what you're really looking for here is Pivot-to-Spindle (PTS) distance, NOT overhang. Recommended overhang will change depending on the alignment chosen. But PTS distance is a main criterion for establishing alignment.

Also, headshell weights depend on the tonearm's effective mass, as to whether or not the OP even needs headshells with varying weights. He may not need them at all.
 
Wolfie62 said:
I think what you're really looking for here is Pivot-to-Spindle (PTS) distance, NOT overhang. Recommended overhang will change depending on the alignment chosen. But PTS distance is a main criterion for establishing alignment.

Also, headshell weights depend on the tonearm's effective mass, as to whether or not the OP even needs headshells with varying weights. He may not need them at all.
Click to expand...

No, I meant overhang, it’s what the manual calls it, and should be followed for a table with an integrated arm.

I wouldn’t recommend the said weight of the headshells if I didn’t know the arm.

5C797E90-A9CC-4711-AD2B-0C68DDFEEAD7.jpeg 4FD28684-B42F-44E6-BE74-956FC202F943.jpeg 5D653B4A-59CA-4A4C-A217-01330316CFF6.jpeg

I’m a fan of pioneer tables, have had many of them, still have a few actually.

I stand by my post, dial in what you have and learn proper set up.
 
Wolfie62 said:
I think what you're really looking for here is Pivot-to-Spindle (PTS) distance, NOT overhang. Recommended overhang will change depending on the alignment chosen. But PTS distance is a main criterion for establishing alignment.

Also, headshell weights depend on the tonearm's effective mass, as to whether or not the OP even needs headshells with varying weights. He may not need them at all.
Click to expand...

DF0E38BB-1FA3-4A8C-82C0-544D6AE41021.jpeg

See… pioneer doesn’t call this a Pivot-to-Spindle gauge.

it’s an overhang gauge.

google the table or just look at the picture I posted… it’s an integrated arm, he can’t adjust his Pivot-to-Spindle, he needs to adjust his OVERHANG.
 
I don’t know of any protractors customized for a particular table/tonearm that DON’T require the PSD.

So what alignment are you using?
4016CC26-438B-40EC-B374-7F77072B87E2.jpeg
5777AEF0-EC88-4725-9296-BF48E9EBC98C.jpeg
6DA7B9C9-4B77-404C-926B-0ADA6D04F494.jpeg
35A937FA-3FD0-45D9-83ED-86BBA52C9761.jpeg
 
Wolfie62 said:
I don’t know of any protractors customized for a particular table/tonearm that DON’T require the PSD.

So what alignment are you using?
View attachment 2300758
View attachment 2300759
View attachment 2300760
View attachment 2300761
Click to expand...

I have a few different ones, some for my SME arms and other general protractors.

E4B44C07-5064-4F11-A24A-37040C860E8F.jpeg A5EF46D0-10B4-42C7-A43D-21BA8E54E8F5.jpeg

His arm is an integrated arm, his adjustment will be made at the headshell, and it’s referred to as overhang. Your hung up on the word. It’s just what pioneer used.

Yes I have paper protractors for specific arms as well. But that’s pointless for his table.

The manual will give info on the overhang, it’s not rocket science.
 
jobrewer1983 said:
I have a few different ones, some for my SME arms and other general protractors.

View attachment 2300866 View attachment 2300867

His arm is an integrated arm, his adjustment will be made at the headshell, and it’s referred to as overhang. Your hung up on the word. It’s just what pioneer used.

Yes I have paper protractors for specific arms as well. But that’s pointless for his table.

The manual will give info on the overhang, it’s not rocket science.
Click to expand...

With ANY integrated arm (That’s what is on my HT-460, BTW.) that has removable headshells, you can choose and set an alignment of your choice. So you’re right, it’s not rocket science, and it’s not rocket engineering (I know something about that!).

also you should use the reply button if your going to ask me a direct question. This will ensure I see it.
Click to expand...

Not really. I did that on purpose to see if you’d actually read what I posted, or just quickly launch into an “answer.”

So in truth, you have no earthly idea WHAT alignment you’re using. That’s ok. Just admit it.

You’re just using whatever overhang is recommended and calling it good.

Many, including me, want just a little more from our table and cartridges. I prefer Lofgren B, but also use Stevenson A for some conicals or if I don’t have the slot room in my headshell.

A fully optimized alignment often requires not only an overhang spec but also an offset adjustment.
 
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Wolfie62 said:
With ANY integrated arm (That’s what is on my HT-460, BTW.) that has removable headshells, you can choose and set an alignment of your choice. So you’re right, it’s not rocket science, and it’s not rocket engineering (I know something about that!).



Not really. I did that on purpose to see if you’d actually read what I posted, or just quickly launch into an “answer.”

So in truth, you have no earthly idea WHAT alignment you’re using. That’s ok. Just admit it.

You’re just using whatever overhang is recommended and calling it good.

Many, including me, want just a little more from our table and cartridges. I prefer Lofgren B, but also use Stevenson A for some conicals or if I don’t have the slot room in my headshell.

A fully optimized alignment often requires not only an overhang spec but also an offset adjustment.
Click to expand...

To your point, yes I know there are different methods of alignment. There are threads on them on AK.
So…I just use what is recommended, yea usually. I trust the manufacturer.

:)
 
Enough already, this back and forth is not helping to OP at all, and one of the parties involved is doing this continually and has been banned from this thread.
Carry on,
Jim
 
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