Soundstage! What is it a product of

[thomo57]

l have recently bought some Coral Triaxiom speakers and had the cabinets built to spec out of 25mm marine ply.
I've damped the internal sides with 2 different densities shredded cotton sheeting.
Not having enough of the loose batting
One was a loose batting 1" ( on back and ends) the other is more compact material about 1/2" on the sides.

I also have a pair of Goodman Triaxiom in a folded horn cabinet.
These sound beautiful with a definite separation of instrument etc.

My question is

Is soundstage a product of the cabinet, the driver, the damping, speaker position or a combination of all of them.

I've been moving these speakers in ,out ,sideways ,toe in toe out but l just can't nail the soundstage the Goodman produce

Any advice or recommendations welcome

 

[grillebilly]

The last amp that was put into my system made more difference than any speaker has. By a huge margin.

 

[JoeESP9]

First, it has to be in the recording.

 

[Blue Shadow]

First, it has to be in the recording.

The result of the engineers and how the music was miked and recorded and then mixed down to 2 tracks and all the work done in those steps. Early stereo was frequently a couple instruments on the left and a couple on the right.

Then a lot has to do with the gear and of course the positioning of the speakers.

 

[GordonW]

Two things that affect soundstaging/imaging:

- Uniformity of frequency response, speaker-to-speaker. In essence, if one speaker has a slightly different response curve (due most frequently to crossover components that don't exactly match in value in one speaker vs. the other, or drivers that have issues).

- Difference in effective level, in one speaker vs. the other. This can be caused by weak or discharged alnico magnets, and also sometimes by crossover issues.

If you can get the speakers to match each other within one dB (or as close to that as possible) throughout the frequency range, then you have a much larger chance of getting good soundstaging.

Regards,
Gordon.

 

[Nat]

The enclosure has a great effect - even if the drivers are well behaved, the enclosures resonate and continue to resonate over time, and they muddy the sound of the actual drivers. Maybe a lot, maybe a little. Little is better. Real music has lots of resonances - in the instruments, in the room, in the floor of the room (and walls and ceiling), but those resonances are part of what makes the reproduction sound real and live. Resonances in speakers just mucks that up.

 

[thomo57]

The last amp that was put into my system made more difference than any speaker has. By a huge margin.

Only change I've made is the speakers.
I've moved them around to check positioning but with no satisfaction

First, it has to be in the recording.

All the recordings I've loved playing through the Goodman have just lost their sparkle so to speak

Two things that affect soundstaging/imaging:

- Uniformity of frequency response, speaker-to-speaker. In essence, if one speaker has a slightly different response curve (due most frequently to crossover components that don't exactly match in value in one speaker vs. the other, or drivers that have issues).

- Difference in effective level, in one speaker vs. the other. This can be caused by weak or discharged alnico magnets, and also sometimes by crossover issues.

If you can get the speakers to match each other within one dB (or as close to that as possible) throughout the frequency range, then you have a much larger chance of getting good soundstaging.

Regards,
Gordon.

This is next on the agenda Gordon
I think there are capacitors attached to the back of the woofers and attenuators which l think l give a good cleanbefore installing.
I'm just about to pull the back off and check

 

[thomo57]

Two things that affect soundstaging/imaging:

- Uniformity of frequency response, speaker-to-speaker. In essence, if one speaker has a slightly different response curve (due most frequently to crossover components that don't exactly match in value in one speaker vs. the other, or drivers that have issues).

- Difference in effective level, in one speaker vs. the other. This can be caused by weak or discharged alnico magnets, and also sometimes by crossover issues.

If you can get the speakers to match each other within one dB (or as close to that as possible) throughout the frequency range, then you have a much larger chance of getting good soundstaging.

Regards,
Gordon.

No capacitors to contend with when l opened them up but l gave the potentiometers a good clean and the sound has improved immensely.

 

[bimasta]

All good points. But positioning is also key, and especially keeping the space between them empty. So many systems have a rack of electronics in the middle, or a TV set-up. The L and R channels need a space to dance together. Also space from the rear and side walls, so the soundstage can expand.

Such an arrangement is impractical in most homes. My set-up is exactly what I recommend against. But for serious listening, for that mystical experience, I move them out into the room for a couple of hours.

 

[thomo57]

All good points. But positioning is also key, and especially keeping the space between them empty. So many systems have a rack of electronics in the middle, or a TV set-up. The L and R channels need a space to dance together. Also space from the rear and side walls, so the soundstage can expand.

Such an arrangement is impractical in most homes. My set-up is exactly what I recommend against. But for serious listening, for that mystical experience, I move them out into the room for a couple of hours.

I've got a similar set up.
Being new speakers and very heavy I've put some small wheels on so l can move them into the room and if l don't move them back it's not hard for my partner to.
After cleaning the attenuators the soundstage is there in buckets.
I've been moving them around for over two weeks trying to find a sweet spot and couldn't nail it.
I was becoming very disappointed with them
Dirty attenuators
Clean them folks

 

[Guest159]

Several things contribute to good imaging.

First, the room needs to be adequately treated to manage reflections. Dulling first reflection surfaces goes a long way, but you want a certain level reflection least the treatments just suck the sound right out of the room.

Second, you need speakers that are competent. Competent speakers typically have innert, narrow cabinets that minimize edge diffraction and display smooth dispersion characteristics. They must also masterfully convey the spacial nuances in a recording, and that usually requires great transparency and micro-dynamics.

Third, you need an amp that will drive those speakers competently with the right Sonic characteristics. Nelson Pass believes that a modest, clean negative phase second harmonic distortion signature provides for a wide, deep soundstage. Having experimented with this concept I find it to be true. So, either use an amp with a very clean, neutral character and drive it with a single ended line stage, or chose an amp with a clean 2nd harmonic character up to 10 or 15 watts that transitions to a clean 3rd, which tends to sound more punchy and dynamic.

That's pretty much how I get the towering, enveloping soundstage I'm listening to.

 

[WaynerN]

Along with the speakers, the position as @bimasta said and the room they are in all play a huge part in sound stage. Sometimes, the ever so slightest toe-in change will make the system come alive, or die a slow, boring death......