Speaker Identification - Wharfedale

[vitcunha]

Dear all,
It is my first post and I apologize if something goes wrong, even though i have read the stickies with rules.

I just took over my uncle's speaker, for which he didn't use anymore. Pictures attached. He does not have any manuals or any paper at all, all info I could find on them was online, so here it goes:

Tweeter:*Wharfedale Super 3*(10/15 Ohms)
Mids 01: Wharfedale Super 8 RS/DD (10/15 Ohms)
Mids 02: Wharfedale Super 10/RS/DD
Woofer: 12'

I could not find which model the woofer was. Either it had a round magnet or it wasn't alnico, or it had a squared alnico but was 15'.


1- Could you help me recognize it?

2 - Was there any wharfedale-ready model which used these exact four speakers?

3 - What do you think about this comp?

4 - What do you think about possible comb filters and passive crossovers to use? Their passive crossover does not exist anymore. I'll try to find the picture of it to post.

 

[Westy56]

That looks neat. I'm really curious how it sounds.

 

[sol7]

No info, but very interesting looking speaker. Too bad there wasn't a pair.

 

[Gang-Twanger]

The box looks DIY, but very-interesting. If the woofer is very-large with a square, red-painted magnet section, then probably an alnico W15. Is there only one box, because two of these are probaby amazing. Wharfedale did not make a model like this, but they were very-supportive of the DIY (do-it-yourself) market and there were lots of cool DIY designs floating around out there.

The mix of alnico and ceramic suggests that the cab was probably built in the mid '60's, give or take.

Is that a port? See if you can figure out the enclosure design of each section (i.e., port or no port, venting of any kind, etc.). What's behind that JBL-looking vent thingy. And where is the crossover and have you looked at that yet?

If there is just one of these cabs, it would probably make for one righteous mono setup if you had an old Fisher tube amp.

 

[VanArn]

The woofer is the model W15 RS.The enclosure does not correspond to Wharfedale designs of the Brigg's era.All the speakers should be inspected and the voice coils tested and redoped to prevent them from unravelling.The roll surrounds should be softened and resealed.Any thought of using these speakers again would be by way of modern design criteria for the cabinet and crossover.A three way system should be contemplated and the Super 8RS DD modified slightly to flatten its response for optimum mid-range performance.

 

[vitcunha]

Who said there ain't a pair?

My apologies, I only posted one of them. Wondering which would be best to in each side.

I am posting more pictures of it for you to have an ideia of how it is inside.

There ain't no connection between each speaker compartment the only one which has a hole is the tweeter, mounted in a horn-like hole.

 

[Gang-Twanger]

One other thing. The Super 8 is the driver in the pictured all the way to the right, yes? The one with the visible black magnet (ceramic)?

And the Super 10 is the SECOND picture, right next to the one of the enclosure?

And is the square-magnet driver in between them the woofer? If so, it looks like a W15 RS/DD woofer (It might have been simply been called the W15/RS), which was apparently available as pictured (with an alnico magnet) until well-into the W*0D series, which is like late '67 or '68 (I have seen a brochure from the W*0 series that lists it, but only the woofer itself... It wasn't being used in any Wharfedale models by then, but you could apparently buy it for replacement or DIY purposes). If that is the woofer in that box, it is the same woofer that was used in Wharfedale's largest and best performer, the 3-way, omni-directional corner speaker that was featured at those live vs recorded events.

That Super 3 tweeter (alnico, later version) is one of the best cone-tweeters ever made. Meant for low-powered tube gear same as the rest of those drivers, and that is likely what your grandfather used to power that thing. My W90's, which are my main speakers, use two of them in each cab (Demo video in my signature below). It is a very-smooth, non-strident tweeter that is perfect for recordings from the '60's and '70's. The Wharfedale speakers of old are ultra-smooth and laid-back. Accurate-sounding, but relaxed. The kind of speakers you can listen to all day without your ears getting tired. Rolled-off a bit on top, but VERY-open-sounding. Also excellent for even older music, like old blues, Sinatra, early rock & roll, etc. Zeppelin's "Ten Years Gone" is playing right now. They do quite-well with that one. Zeppelin, Stones, Hendrix, Deep Purple, the Faces, etc.

 

[vitcunha]

Thank you very much for your replies!

Excuse my poor drawing techniques, but I managed to draw what i could with measures.

And here are some figures about each internal volume: (all in centimeters)
tweeter/upper: wharfedale super 3
= 19,3 x 85,75 x 27,5 = 45511,8125cm³
+
~35 x 12,2 x 27,5 /*2 (triangle) x 2 sides =~11742,5 cm³
= 57254,3125 =~0,057m³

upper mid: wharfedale super 8/RS/DD
Volume: 85,75 x 33,1 x 27,5 = 78053,9735 cm³ = ~0,078 m³

lower mid = super 10
volume: 85,75 x 43,2 x 27,5 = 101871cm³ = ~0,102m³

woofer/lower - W15
63 x 85,75 x 27,5 = 148561,875 = ~0,1485m³


The passive crossover we had (15-20 years ago, before it disintegrated, was the Wharfedale HS/400/3.
It was just like the one in the picture, except it said "HS/400/3" (4000/3k cut), not HS/CR3/2 (800/5k cut)

The woofer is the model W15 RS.The enclosure does not correspond to Wharfedale designs of the Brigg's era.All the speakers should be inspected and the voice coils tested and redoped to prevent them from unravelling.The roll surrounds should be softened and resealed.Any thought of using these speakers again would be by way of modern design criteria for the cabinet and crossover.A three way system should be contemplated and the Super 8RS DD modified slightly to flatten its response for optimum mid-range performance.

Back in the day, my uncle sent a letter to Wharfedale with pictures of the loudspeakers and the cabinet. They returned one of the pictures with a "recommended montage" (see attachment). How was Brigg's design?

Also, what is the best manner to test the speakers to see if they need to be redoped? I may need a redoping tutorial, any tips or forum redirections?

Also2, should not I follow how the passive crossover was intended to work with? i screenshot one of the many wharfedale brochures i found out there, please read attached what they say about it. (now that i know i have a W15)
Shouldn't, according to this, the Super 12 be the spare one?

One other thing. The Super 8 is the driver in the pictured all the way to the right, yes? The one with the visible black magnet (ceramic)?

Aye! The Super 8 is the only with the black magnet.

That Super 3 tweeter (alnico, later version) is one of the best cone-tweeters ever made.

It wasn't being used in any Wharfedale models by then, but you could apparently buy it for replacement or DIY purposes). If that is the woofer in that box, it is the same woofer that was used in Wharfedale's largest and best performer, the 3-way, omni-directional corner speaker that was featured at those live vs recorded events.

Hooray! Guess I've got gold under my pillow?! So excited to see these babies working!

Oh! And you will never tell, but when i clicked on your signature, i realized i had already watched you other video, the W90/Fischer800, countless times during my Wharfedale searches (which come from a long time... maybe from lurking AK forums even though i was not a member). In fact, you were the one who introduced me to Tower of Power! Without even knowing of my existance and me neither even thinking of trading posts with you one day. I shall thank you very much!

 

[EddyR]

Very neat set up. I have seen all those drivers over the years but never in that setup. I have been doing the same thing is this person did that is building speakers into new cabinets that I liked. Many came out very nice sounding and a few did not. I would suggest using them in a large room as there is a lot of space between the drivers. If you sit to close the sound will get separated and you will hear each driver separate.You want to hears all drivers as one.
I like them.They would go good with my victorian equipment cabinet.:thmbsp:

 

[EddyR]

I looked at the speaker box carefully and this looks like the back of a piece of furniture. What does the original front look like.Did it have drawers or doors?
Ed

 

[vitcunha]

Such a neat cabinet yours, I should tell!

I'm not sure it was a furniture piece before... I'd say it was made for the speakers, not sure. We are not the first owners, my uncle bought it back in the 70's from a man he does not keep contact anymore...
I'm uploading a picture of the front grid it has. I removed them so i could check and picture the speakers.

and OH! I found a picture of the "original" crossover. Actually it says "Type 400/CR3 2", cuts in 400 and 5k.

 

[vitcunha]

Sorry about my abscence. I broke my foot and had to go to surgery.

Also sorry about reposting what i started another thread with. But i had no replies there.

OK.
Doing a lot of research on wharfies since I decided to revive my uncle's speakers.

Which of these crossovers belonged to which wharfedale-ready combo speaker(s)?

400/CR3/2 - 400/5000 hz cuts
HS/CR3/2 - 800/5000 hz cuts
HS/400/3 - 400/3000 hz cuts

We had the 400/5k. And my speakers are a W15/RS, a Super 8 RS/DD (not alnico), a Super 10 RS/DD and a Super 3

Some points:

1 - Due to more than one Wharfedale catalogs i found, they suggested a W15/RS + Super 8/RS/DD + Super 3 as "The Ultimate - A three way speaker system with superb power handling capacity in the bass, the middle and the treble, and incorporating a three way crossover", and suggested the HS/400/3 Crossover. This crossover is 30 watt max.

2 - The Airedale Model Had a W15/RS + Super 8/FS + Super 3 (does not clear which model it was, don't know if internal or external). 400/5K cut. Says 20 watt max. The Super 8/FS is an Alnico model.

3 - The "Omni-directional 3-SPEAKER system" had a W15/RS OR W15/FS + Super 8/FS + Super 3 (does not clear which model it was, don't know if internal or external). 400/5K cut. Says 20 watt max. It had an extra note: "The sand-filled corner panel is available separately with sub-baffle to take 15" or 12" units to order. It is recommended for use with the Coaxial 12 or Super 12/RS/DD units as an alternative to the AF12 Cabinet. Where there is no suitable corner, a special model is available fitted with sand-filled back panels.


My quest: I bought a HS/CR3/2 (800/5k) to open it, write down the schematic and produce two units of the 400/5k model (since it was the one i had before it broke) just changing the cut of the bass from 800 to 400 through figures. What i got on my way? WAX. (see picture).


My questions:
1 - Do any of you have the schematic for these models?
2 - Should I go for which comp? I am between going for the "3-Way Omni" one and build the cabinet, but my Super 8 ain't the "FS" (alnico), it is the RS/DD; and "The Ultimate" one, which had no suggested cabinet but I have all the speakers, therefore I don't know what should i do.
3 - Research-wise, which of these crossovers belonged to which wharfedale-ready speakers?
4 - Tips on the spare Super 10?

Either way, I would need to build either the 400/5000 or the 400/3000 crossover.

Cheers. Vitor

 

[nocaster]

hi guys I found these 12″ babies but I can't find any numbers or ID.
Any idea?
thanks for help