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Speaker Placement in Regard to Chennel Separation

JoeESP9 said:
Change only one thing at a time. IMO this is the only way to make changes/improvements.
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Agree 100%. By the time that I have bought a rug or do anything else I'll be done with fiddling around with my speaker setup. And the system is actually sounding really good now. Very good in fact.

The main point of my questions were less "what do I need to do" and more just interested if other AKers have had similar experiences of needing to adjust speaker placement after changing to a different source device.

Cheers,
James
 
I juggle between 2 different tube amp's and haven't noticed a big difference in separation. Difference in sound, yes. I'm anal about speaker placement/listening position. Laser measuring device proves this. Toe in crosses behind listening position. Take's the hit off high's.
 
Toeing in so they cross in front of the sweet spot dramatically widens said sweet spot for multiple listeners, something that's been done with tweeters in automobiles for decades. Not suggesting this is the optimum placement for sound staging, imaging, etc, many speakers prefer no toe in and lots of space to integrate.
 
No multiple listeners here except my wife and there's plenty of room for the two of us in our sweet spot.

 
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Bratwurst7s said:
The main point of my questions were less "what do I need to do" and more just interested if other AKers have had similar experiences of needing to adjust speaker placement after changing to a different source device.
Cheers,
James
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Don't forget there's a psychological component to listening. If I recap an amp, or speakers, etc., (changed component) there's an initial period where it will sound different than it did before the recap. During that listening period, your brain is now getting used to the new sound, which then disappears as you've trained your brain. Perhaps that's a bit of what's going on. Not all mind you, but just listen for awhile without changing anything and then see of the detail comes back like you're used to.

There's also the possibility that the vintage Denon has an issue with one/some of the components...caps drying out or going out of spec, etc. That could certainly cause sound issues while still allowing the unit to function.
 
Sure there's without a doubt some ear and brain adjustments to be made. The "new" cdp sounds quite different than the old one. Much clearer and more detailed, more definition. It sounds much better than the old one. In fact by the 2nd cd I had already decided to give the Onkyo back to the friend that gave it to me (did that today).

But I also noticed immediately that imaging had suffered until I adjusted toe-in. The were at about 20° of toe-in and are now at about 14° and sounding very good.

I'm thinking that the different sound just has a different acoustic synergy with the room, that the reflections sound different and need a slightly different speaker angle for my ears to like it.

While it's possible that the player has a defect that would make 2 of them. I bought 2 identical ones on the 'bay and to my ears they sound identical. Again, this isn't about a bad sound, just that the speakers needed a slight adjustment to achieve what sounds good in the way of imaging. The cdp sounds freaking great. I just listened to The Animal's "Berfore We Were So Rudely Interrupted" and it gave me goose bumps it sounded so good. I'm loving this cdp.

Cheers,
James
 
No psychoacoustic baggage to separation. It isn't really in the same ballpark as tone and clarity and other such attributes that require retraining the brain to hear properly. It's either there ... or it isn't.

Lot of good advice above for setting up your system and room, but oft overlooked is the listening chair. A high back or heavily padded chair can block sound and reflections that augment and define the channels.

Speaker placement is also critical. Read the book, as some are pretty specific about how they need to be set up to develop their full potential. Reflections from the side or back can make or break your sound field.

Consider yourself lucky if you're not into holography. Very narrow sweet spot that may require some compromise when it comes to comfort ...

listening-chair.jpg


PS ... I'd also stick with a couple tracks that you know should be quite good instead of jumping around. Dire Straits Brothers In Arms is nice and clean with outstanding separation when everything's working right.
 
Loving your listening chair. Especially the height adjustable arms. Gotta work on that haircut though...

It's true that I like a bit of variety, but when doing testing I stick to a stable of tried and true albums. Dire Strait's "Dire Straits" is one of them. :D I don't have Brothers In Arms yet. It's on the buy list tho.

I'd love to get a couple of feet of space behind my listening couch but the room is just too small. But room treatments are in the long term plan starting in the fall (I hope, reality allowing).

Cheers,
James
 
Is the wall behind your chair really necessary? <G>

That's dedication to audio ... my smallish audio room needed some room to breathe, so I blew out the back wall and replaced that with an open arch that joints to the room that's behind it.

I figure 400wpc was gonna blow that wall out eventually anyway. <G>
 
sKiZo said:
Is the wall behind your chair really necessary? <G>
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As far as I'm concerned I'd be happy to take a sledge hammer to the back wall. (Foot thick wall, bricks the size of cinder blocks). But the 4 painters living on the other side might not be so happy to get thrown out of their apartment, not to mention the building management... :nono:

The other option would be to toss the wife's 2 china cabinets, the dining table and chairs, and then turn the stereo 90° and use the room longwise, bit I want to live long enough to reach retirement. :D

Cheers,
James
 
I think that I've figured out what's going on.

Compared to the Onkyo cdp that I was using my new Denon has much enhanced higs and lows. Or perhaps one could say that the mids aren't playing as loud now. And without an equal amount of midrange sound imaging is suffering.

That's my theory. Tomorrow I'll put it to the test and remove the padding resistors that I have on my mids and give it a drive around the block.

Cheers,
James
 
OK! Success. For the record I had about 1.7db of padding on my mids and 2db on the tweeters in my speakers.

Removing the mid padding resulted in everything that I had hoped for. I just listened to Loggins & Messina Full Sail, Gratefull Dead American Beauty, Ted Nugent Ted Nugent and Supertramp COTC.

Fantasticly balanced now, imaging is perhaps better than before (and it was very good with the Onkyo DX-6900), and overall the music is much more detailed, more presence. Kick drums have defined athourity, mids are startlingly clear. I'll be listening to some more later, some from my test list and some randomly chosen, but the results so far are very positive.

Buying the Denon DCD-1290 has turned into a win, and given me a learning experience. I'm happy. Gang-Twanger, you brought up synergy. Seems to tie in completely. 2 different cd players worked considerably differently than each other with my speakers. I don't have adjustable padding on my speakers but it would seem that this is a clear indication that it would be useful to have some.

Many thanks to everyone that offered a comment and thought.

Cheers,
James
 
Bratwurst7s said:
As far as I'm concerned I'd be happy to take a sledge hammer to the back wall. (Foot thick wall, bricks the size of cinder blocks). But the 4 painters living on the other side might not be so happy to get thrown out of their apartment, not to mention the building management... :nono:

The other option would be to toss the wife's 2 china cabinets, the dining table and chairs, and then turn the stereo 90° and use the room longwise, bit I want to live long enough to reach retirement. :D

Cheers,
James
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I got rid of the back wall when I removed the wall between my living and dining rooms. Turning what was two small rooms into a single medium sized listening/AV room made a bigger positive difference, sound wise, than anything else I can imagine.
 
In my case, blowing out the wall in my tiny 8x8 cube added a good 1350 cubic feet of breathing room. I'm sure it also added some interesting dynamics to the mix, but mostly in a good way, and anything else that got in the way of good sound has been tamed over the years with a bit of tweaking here and there. All in all, the pros far outweigh the cons. :thmbsp:

I suppose that's not always the case, but you can always put the wall back if it all goes horribly wrong ... ;-}

PS ... anybody out there reaching for a sledgehammer, DO check whether it's a bearing wall or not first. Granted, you should get a light airy feel to a room without a roof, but still ...
 
JoeESP9 said:
I got rid of the back wall when I removed the wall between my living and dining rooms. Turning what was two small rooms into a single medium sized listening/AV room made a bigger positive difference, sound wise, than anything else I can imagine.
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sKiZo said:
In my case, blowing out the wall in my tiny 8x8 cube added a good 1350 cubic feet of breathing room. I'm sure it also added some interesting dynamics to the mix, but mostly in a good way, and anything else that got in the way of good sound has been tamed over the years with a bit of tweaking here and there. All in all, the pros far outweigh the cons. :thmbsp:...
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I would love to have more space in my living/listening room. Actually the space is there but I can't use it. The left 1/3 of the room is taken up with a dining area that would cost more than my life to get rid of.

The truth is that my speakers are really just too large for the space, but I will never part with them. My son will eventually inherit them but until then they stay.

High on the audio todo list, starting in the fall or beginning of next year, is room treatments.

Cheers,
James
 
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